# The lost art of the dollar sign **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 13, 2019, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897 "2019-05-13T13:52:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kiwi\_Fruit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiwi_fruit/32/12_2.png) [@Kiwi\_Fruit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiwi_Fruit)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/61 "2019-05-15T23:50:28Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Almost [all countries](https://www.forbes.com/sites/othercomments/2014/10/15/u-s-gives-financial-aid-to-96-of-all-countries/#1e90da8cccb9): > > Even [Canada](https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd/CAN) > > Some to [France](https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd/FRA), but not much But apparently [NZ](https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd/NZL?fiscal_year=2016&measure=Obligations) gave the US aid in 2016! ---
**Author:** ![Kiwi\_Fruit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiwi_fruit/32/12_2.png) [@Kiwi\_Fruit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiwi_Fruit)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/62 "2019-05-16T00:00:46Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Rather, the Euro symbol comes after the number in most non-English styles. I’ve noticed a lot of Dutch price tags written as €3.25 (not the amount, just used for eaxmple). ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/63 "2019-05-16T00:15:35Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > They use dollars in France? > > 😉 That’s how it’s done in Quebec. I believe they use commas where we would use decimals. So I guess you would write 1 000 000,00 $ instead of $1,000,000.00 for one million dollars. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/64 "2019-05-16T00:27:11Z")
> [@Kiwi\_Fruit](#): > > I’ve noticed a lot of Dutch price tags written as €3.25 (not the amount, just used for eaxmple). Dutch is one of the exceptions. Of the EU countries, I think Ireland and the Netherlands are the only countries that put the sign before the number, and that reflects their historical usage of currency markers in their languages. I can’t find anything definitive, though. Actually, now that I think about it, I don’t know if the Euro symbol comes after the number in most non-English styles. I was being Eurocentric and only thinking of European languages, and for that I apologize and feel like an idiot. It is the case that it comes after the number in most non-English European styles. I don’t know what the convention is in other languages, though. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/65 "2019-05-16T12:29:38Z")
I’ve just checked the MediaMarkt website, which is a large, German appliance and electronics retail outlet with branches throughout most of western Europe. Of course, it has sites tailored for each specific country, and it’s interesting to note that overall, they don’t use the € symbol prominently, but when they do use it, its position varies according to each country. Something else I caught: some countries have the x.99 price ending that we’re so familiar with in the USA, and some of the countries use whole values of euro. And on top of that – I’m not sure if this is simply style, or common practice – the .00 portion is represented with a bar. Of course there’s also the different placement of the decimal character, as well as choice of decimal character. The most impressive to me is how MediaMarkt accommodates all of these different styles for different markets. It’s kind of making me think that Canadians are a bunch of whiners. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/66 "2019-05-16T14:29:53Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > … And on top of that – I’m not sure if this is simply style, or common practice – [some countries use] the .00 portion is represented with a bar. Of course there’s also the different placement of the decimal character, as well as choice of decimal character… This point, of a symbol that to my American eyes is really out there, made me think of something not touched on (I believe) in this thread about style and evidence of marketing accommodations to it: There are occasions such as US contracts or government, in print, where that symbol, I would surmise, would actually be illegal. Even for personal financial contracts. Case: just wrote a check–something in these days I do relatively rarely–for a round number, and I paused before I wrote in the spelled-out line [never understood that was necessary, BTW] the "’ and ‘00/100’ ’ part. Not only do I wonder if using the bar in the numeral portion is kosher–although I suspect it is–but here, the transcription line which uses a transcription and an actual change in numeral use–would allow that. I’m not losing sleep over the issue, but the transcription of 0 cents, which is the way I was solemnly taught, always annoyed me. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/67 "2019-05-16T14:37:06Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > … > > … the transcription line … uses a transcription and an actual change in numeral use … ETA: this usage is one more for the examples catalogue in this thread. Plus I now note the error of mine above in standard English where numbers below 10 should be spelled out. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/68 "2019-05-16T16:43:53Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Plus I now note the error of mine above in standard English where numbers below 10 should be spelled out. I tend to do this, too, but that’s more the result of style guides, rather than any “standard” English, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/69 "2019-05-16T17:03:44Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I tend to do this, too, but that’s more the result of style guides, rather than any “standard” English, isn’t it? Yeah, it’s just a matter of style. Almost all style guides, though, recommend writing out the numbers 1 through 10. But if you have multiple numbers in the same sentence, you generally just use the numerals if one is above 10 (or 100 or whatever your style guide recommends). So _1 through 1024_, not _one through 1024_. And, of course, for idioms and named numbers, you write them out. _One in a million_. _A thousand dollars_. There are other rules for addresses and phone numbers and such (generally, don’t spell out the numbers). ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/70 "2019-05-21T15:19:48Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Just adding my own [del].02 cents[/del] $.02. ITYM $0.02 cents 😃 ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/71 "2019-05-21T15:21:35Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > So ten francs is 10f, oui? How about Euros? And is it “ten Euros” or “ten Euro”? I see both, haven’t gotten any sense of which is mo’ betta correcterish. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/72 "2019-05-21T15:56:01Z")
I believe we write $10 because if you don’t want the person to whom you just handed a check to alter it, you can write 10.00 and it's not easy to "edit" the amount. In contrast, 10.00 can easily be changed to 910.00$ In an era where important sums of money changed hands based on what was written on pieces of paper, this was an important bit of security against fraud. In contrast, no one has ever exchanged really significant sums of money that were denominated in cents, so the more linguistically natural placement of the cents sign, after the number, won out. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/73 "2019-05-21T16:30:36Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Even for personal financial contracts. Case: just wrote a check–something in these days I do relatively rarely–for a round number, and I paused before I wrote in the spelled-out line [never understood that was necessary, BTW] the "’ and ‘00/100’ ’ part. It removes ambiguity if you have sloppy handwriting. As someone that’s taken thousands of checks over the years, I can tell you that there have been plenty of times where I’ve had to refer to the written part to figure out what the number part said. Also, and probably the bigger reason, if you just write the number, it’s really easy to change it. It would be trivial to take a check for $500.00 and change it to $1500.00. But turning ‘five hundred’ into ‘fifteen hundred’ or ‘one thousand five hundred’ is going to much more difficult, and obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/74 "2019-05-24T12:12:17Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > “Just” 16 million? That’s still a lot of hits. Don’t some other currencies use the same symbol but after the figure? I know Portuguese escudos did, before the euro. Values would be written, eg, 10$ or 12$50, for 10 and 12.5 escudos respectively. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/75 "2019-05-24T12:19:25Z")
> [@phs3](#): > > And is it “ten Euros” or “ten Euro”? I see both, haven’t gotten any sense of which is mo’ betta correcterish. Supposedly there was some European edict that the plural of “euro” in English is “euro”, but that was never intend to control everyday use and has been changed anyway. Although in Ireland they still tend to leave off the s. In other European languages it varies: some follow the normal language rules for plurals but many just use “euro” for any number. And in some, they use the plural form when talking about more than one physical euro coin, but the singular for an amount expressed in euros. Lots of info (including the writing conventions for the symbol) at [Language and the euro - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_and_the_euro) ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/76 "2019-05-24T13:41:26Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > They use dollars in France? > > 😉 French isn’t spoken solely in France. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/77 "2019-05-24T20:58:51Z")
The real Lost Art of the dollar sign is not using two bars. Somehow the single bar, obviously the work of the devil, became dominant. We all know that the One True Dollar Sign has double bars. Cf. the “money bags” used in many old cartoons. Worse, some font designers only have the top and bottom “nibs” of the bar. Omitting the majority of the bar entirely. Slackers. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/78 "2019-05-24T21:31:34Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Supposedly there was some European edict that the plural of “euro” in English is “euro”, but that was never intend to control everyday use and has been changed anyway. Although in Ireland they still tend to leave off the s. I recently posted something on facebook where I wrote something like “400 euro” without the “s” and immediately a friend of mine noticed it as an Irish phrasing. I have no idea where I picked it up from, though. It just sounds right to my ears, just like ¥200 is “200 yen”, and not “200 yens,” somehow 200€ sounds better as “200 euro” vs “200 euros” to me. Haven’t spent any time in Ireland or taking in Irish media, so no idea where I picked it up from–maybe from other European languages where they don’t pluralize it. Is Ireland the only English-language country that doesn’t use “Euros” in the plural? ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/79 "2019-05-26T01:44:21Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Is Ireland the only English-language country that doesn’t use “Euros” in the plural? What’s the American English standard? I use “euro,” too, except that I regard that as plural, like yen, renminbi, yuan, bhat, rand, etc. I’m not sure why, but rupees instead of rupee. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897/80 "2019-05-26T03:12:19Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > What’s the American English standard? So far as I could tell, it’s “euros,” especially as my construction of “200 euro” was called out by a fellow American as a non-standard usage (he regarded it as “Irish.”) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lost-art-of-the-dollar-sign/833897.md?page=5)