# The Luca Brasi Gambit
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-luca-brasi-gambit/679776
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [January 26, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-luca-brasi-gambit/679776 "2014-01-26T19:30:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 11
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-luca-brasi-gambit/679776/21 "2014-01-27T16:17:24Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#):
>
> Sounds like a good idea to me. Post it and they will come.
Just might! Thanks for the support for the notion.
ETA: You must be right, **runner pat** , or else the thing would be boring as stump water. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-luca-brasi-gambit/679776/22 "2014-01-27T20:08:21Z")
I thought the killing of Brassi was just to get the Godfather’s most formidable and devoted assassin out of the way. Solozzo never expected him to betray the Godfather, but he needed some excuse to arrange a meeting so he could be killed, as part of the plot to kill Don Corleone and take over his rackets.
The Tattalgias thought little of Sonny, from his stupid remark showing that he might consider joining in the drug deal (as **puddleglum** describes), and Fredo was weak. So, they thought, was Michael, or perhaps that he would not get involved in “family business”. And they grabbed Tom the lawyer to do the negotiations. I don’t recall that anyone expected Luca to do anything beyond (maybe) find out what was going on. But my impression was that this happened before it was widely known that Don Corleone was dead or incapacitated.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-luca-brasi-gambit/679776/23 "2014-01-27T20:29:06Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#):
>
> The killer in that situation was Rocco Lampone. A Caporegime. Not a random mook.
Exactly. It makes it even less likely for him to be sent on a suicide mission. You might be able to fan wank that a random guy was blackmailed or his family threatened to carry out the hit. But not someone like Rocco. And there is no way he could get out of there alive or free.
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### Author:  [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-luca-brasi-gambit/679776/24 "2014-01-27T20:42:11Z")
> [@Loach](#):
>
> Exactly. It makes it even less likely for him to be sent on a suicide mission. You might be able to fan wank that a random guy was blackmailed or his family threatened to carry out the hit. But not someone like Rocco. And there is no way he could get out of there alive or free.
Well, an Al Neri or Luca Brasi would do it. A Clemenza or Tessio probably wouldn’t.
Had the incident already been novelized, I’ll bet Puzo would have addressed that by saying Lampone was dying already or was fanatically devoted.
(Shrug) That kind of exposition would have seemed cumbersome in the movie.
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### Author:  [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2014, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-luca-brasi-gambit/679776/25 "2014-01-27T22:47:11Z")
I always had the impression that Luca somehow failed a “smell test” at his meeting with Sollozzo and Tattaglia.
Sollozzo makes his pitch, and holds out his hand to shake with Luca, and Luca kinda nods absently and takes out a smoke instead.
So by refusing to shake with Sollozzo, I think Luca indicated either he was going to hold out for more money, or wasn’t really serious in the first place.
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### Author:  [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-luca-brasi-gambit/679776/26 "2014-01-27T23:20:13Z")
It could also be that Vito wouldn’t mind losing Luca Brasi as it is pretty plain he fears Brasi.
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### Author:  [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2014, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-luca-brasi-gambit/679776/27 "2014-01-28T01:54:46Z")
“Leave the gun, take the canollis.”
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-luca-brasi-gambit/679776/28 "2014-01-29T16:12:19Z")
From a non-Doper friend who’s a big fan:
_If you read the book, you would understand the undying loyalty that Luca gave Vito Corleone. It was based in the Mafia lore, plus Vito had protected him from a murder back in Italy. Luca killed a bastard newborn child of his. Vito protected him sensing he could get favors from the man to which Luca reciprocated. Luca Brasi was the only man Vito was scared of and that was because of his might._
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### Author:  [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-luca-brasi-gambit/679776/29 "2014-01-29T16:43:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> I thought the killing of Brassi was just to get the Godfather’s most formidable and devoted assassin out of the way. Solozzo never expected him to betray the Godfather, but he needed some excuse to arrange a meeting so he could be killed, as part of the plot to kill Don Corleone and take over his rackets.
>
> The Tattalgias thought little of Sonny, from his stupid remark showing that he might consider joining in the drug deal (as **puddleglum** describes), and Fredo was weak. So, they thought, was Michael, or perhaps that he would not get involved in “family business”. And they grabbed Tom the lawyer to do the negotiations. I don’t recall that anyone expected Luca to do anything beyond (maybe) find out what was going on. But my impression was that this happened before it was widely known that Don Corleone was dead or incapacitated.
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
The plot is very subtle. Barzini was behind it the whole time. He sends Solozzo and Tattaglia to the Godfather while concealing his own involvement. When Sonny slips up, the Godfather takes the threat lightly because he doesn’t respect Tattaglia. This leaves him vulnerable to Barzini who is able to target the Godfather, kidnap Tom, and kill Sonny using Sollozoo and Tattaglia men and hide his involvement. Thus he is able to weaken two other families at no cost to his own. Barzini is able to get the Godfather to acquiesce to the drug trade at no cost to himself while Sollozzo is eliminated by Micheal. It was a subtle and very effective plan. It fooled the Godfather which is how the Luca Brasa gambit happened. He didn’t put his best man on the job because he thought Tatagglia was too dumb to see through it and Sollozzo wouldn’t make a move without backing from a family. Barzini saw the opening that Sonny’s remark was, and jumped in with decisize action.
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### Author:  [@Doyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doyle)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-luca-brasi-gambit/679776/30 "2014-01-30T20:29:59Z")
It’s been years since I read the book, but as I recall, Puzzo did a very nice job of making most of these stories real and plausible. Coppolla just didn’t have time to explore them thoroughly.
In the case of Brasi, the Don knew Lucca might not be coming back but was willing to take that chance because he himself feared Brasi to a certain degree and did know if he could control him. Also, Brasi did it for the Don for covering up the Brasi’s murder of his Irish girlfriend and throwing their infant baby into a flaming furnace.
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### Author:  [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-luca-brasi-gambit/679776/31 "2014-02-03T23:09:53Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#):
>
> There’s tons of stuff in the Godfather that doesn’t stand up to scrutiny, like how it was so easy to hit all those mob bosses at the same time. Those steps where Barzinni got his were conveniently barren of bystanders. After puffing up the stairs with the shotgun in the flower box, how did Clemenza know his prey would emerge from the elevator when they did? When all those big mob guys are bumped off, Michael, or at least the Corleone family, would be under official scrutiny. Probably not the best time to strangle someone in the driveway in broad daylight. One more: isn’t it odd (and convenient) that the Turk wouldn’t have had someone sitting outside Louis’s cafe in the Bronx during that meeting?
I don’t think some of that stuff is so implausible. There had been peace for 10+ years. All of the Dons had let down their guard. I think that’s why Michael was able to get to them. Regarding being barren of bystanders… why are you saying that an issue? He would have been killed even if there were bystanders. It’s not like there are usually thousands of people on stairs at any other time. What is there about the elevator that makes the timing of it matter? If you know someone is eventually coming by elevator, you just sit and wait. Not only that but what if it’s something that occurs at the same time everyday. I think you’re reading too much into it to try to make it NOT work. Regarding the cafe; are you talking about where Michael shot the Turk? All the backtracking they did, and the fact that the Turk would have kept the location to as few people as possible; it’s easy to believe no one else was there. Remember the police captain was there too. No one thought anyone had the balls to kill an NYPD police captain.
> [@NeonMadman](#):
>
> In the novel, Brasi is not portrayed as being as stupid as he appeared in the movie, but he was an effective businessman and a shrewd and deadly family operative. In that context, he might not have been so likely to be mindlessly loyal to the Don as in the movie. So it might have been more plausible to Solozzo that Brasi might actually have been willing to think about crossing over for a better deal. In the movie, however, he seemed like one step above a drooling idiot, and it’s hard to see in that sort of portrayal how he could have even risen to the level of independent thinking needed to become a traitor.
Not only that, but Luca was trying to make it look like he wasn’t happy with the Don, and tried to put himself in a position to be approached. He didn’t go looking to be a traitor. Regardless, they still killed him, knowing there was no way he would betray Don Corleone; but that was a gamble the lost. Maybe more proof of Don Corleone slipping in his old age.
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