# The Lunar Republic and Properties on the moon **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 27, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369 "2005-12-27T22:49:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![drbuzz0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@drbuzz0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drbuzz0)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/1 "2005-12-27T22:49:29Z")
You may be aware that there are companies which are selling claim to properties on the moon and that there is a “Lunar Republic” and “Lunar Embassy” which claim to be the reglatory sovernties of the moon. These are baised in claims which were staked on the moon, which are apparnetly grounded in international law. I’ve done some research and it seems that one could make an argument for the validity of these claims based on some loopholes and gray areas of various treaties and common laws. But it still seems a little out there to me. So I’m wondering: Have any major agencies, governments or organizations made any coments to the record as to whether they endorse or challange the validity of these claims? In otherwords, has Nasa, the United States, The Russian Space Agency, the United Nations, the World Bank, Nato, The IMF or any other such bodies ever formally reconized or commented on these claims? Have any courts or treaty orgaizations ever examined these claims? I’d appreciate getting the Straight Dope on this one. Thanks, Steve ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/2 "2005-12-27T23:09:33Z")
Of course no courts have “looked into” this, any more than they’ve looked into my claim that I’m the king of the potato fairies. The moon is owned by no one, there is no Lunar republic. This is what is known as “made up”. To have a claim on the moon, you’d need to get to the moon and defend your claim against anyone who would infringe your claim. Since no one on Earth today can get to the moon…let alone some guy in a basement who claims he’s a member of the Lunar republic…then there is no such thing as a claim on the moon. No country in the world recognizes any country or individual’s claim on the moon, and even if they did it would only matter if you could get to the moon, which you can’t. This is like the “International Star Registry”. Yeah, they have a book, and they’ll put your name in it. Except no one who isn’t an employee of the International Star Registry corporation uses that book of names. I have a Lemur866 Star Registry, and I’ll happily add any name you like to my registry for a modest fee of course. The Lemur866 registry has exactly–EXACTLY–the same validity as the International Star Registry you hear advertised on the radio. And the Lunar Republic’s moon claims have exactly–EXACTLY–the same validity as the Lemur866 Republic’s moon claims. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/3 "2005-12-28T00:17:32Z")
> [@drbuzz0](#): > > based on some loopholes and gray areas of various treaties and common laws. But it still seems a little out there to me. Not positive on this, but I recall hearing that international treaties on the demilitarization of space also contain a provision that no nation can lay claims on space (and bodies other than the Earth) - this also means individuals are SOL when it comes to laying their own claims. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/4 "2005-12-28T00:26:31Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > Not positive on this, but I recall hearing that international treaties on the demilitarization of space also contain a provision that no nation can lay claims on space (and bodies other than the Earth) - this also means individuals are SOL when it comes to laying their own claims. I suspect that even if this is the law right now, some sort of provision will be made when technology actually gets to the point of businesses being able to travel practically to the moon. There’s too much precedent on the notion of property rights on the frontier… would be like the kingdoms of Europe in 1505 signing a treaty that none of them could lay claim to property in the new world. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/5 "2005-12-28T00:29:54Z")
[Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies](http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/5181.htm) > [@](#): > > Article II > Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/6 "2005-12-28T00:34:13Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > would be like the kingdoms of Europe in 1505 signing a treaty that none of them could lay claim to property in the new world. If only they had… 🙂 > [@Lemur866](#): > > Of course no courts have “looked into” this, any more than they’ve looked into my claim that I’m the king of the potato fairies. The 1st District Court of Gabe hereby recognizes **Lemur866** as the King of the Potatoe Fairies, provided that “potato” is spelled in the traditional Quaylesque fashion of the Fairies. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/7 "2005-12-28T01:09:23Z")
> [@drbuzz0](#): > > You may be aware that there are companies which are selling claim to properties on the moon and that there is a “Lunar Republic” and “Lunar Embassy” which claim to be the reglatory sover[eig]nties of the moon… [eddie izzard] Do you have a flag? [/eddie izzard] ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/8 "2005-12-28T02:27:12Z")
> [@drbuzz0](#): > > These are baised in claims which were staked on the moon Humm. So which of these 12 men ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_lunar\_astronauts](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lunar_astronauts)) who have actually walked on the moon’s surface pounded in those stakes for them? I don’t recall hearing about that. Are these stakes visible in any of the photos of the moons surface that are available online? Those claims are completely false. ---
**Author:** ![drbuzz0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@drbuzz0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drbuzz0)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/9 "2005-12-28T06:03:07Z")
My guess has been that if you read the international precidents for claims to land on earth that you possibly _could_ interperate it in a way which will allow for he claim of space property. However, baed simply on the fact that there is no actual law saying you could do so, and because allowing claims on any astronomical body would cause huge problems, I highly doubt that the validity of such a claim would ever be reconized. That’s kinda too bad though, because I figured if I laid claim to the sun, I could start he ultimate engergy company. I could start charging people a monthly bill for the energy which prevents their property from dropping to near absolute zero and for proding light and heat in genral. Cosidering the skyrocketing price of energy, I think I could make a real lot of money. I may end up getting sued though, by people who get skin cancer or sunburn or by companies who’s satellites are occassionally killed by a solar flair. Also, I’m not sure what the international proliferation regulations are, but I might need some kind of aproval to operate such a large fusion reactor without getting the IAEA all pissy at me. -Steve ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/10 "2005-12-28T06:06:06Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > Not positive on this, but I recall hearing that international treaties on the demilitarization of space also contain a provision that no nation can lay claims on space (and bodies other than the Earth) - this also means individuals are SOL when it comes to laying their own claims. As with any other land claim, if you can occupy the territory and defend it against all comers, then you own it. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/11 "2005-12-28T07:02:06Z")
> [@drbuzz0](#): > > That’s kinda too bad though, because I figured if I laid claim to the sun, I could start he ultimate engergy company. I could start charging people a monthly bill for the energy To make it as an energy company, you have to have a way to turn it off for the customers who don’t pay. What’s your plan to _turn off the sun_ when people don’t pay? And what if I pay, but my next-door neighbor doesn’t – can you turn off the sunlight for him, but keep it coming on my property? ---
**Author:** ![drbuzz0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@drbuzz0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drbuzz0)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/12 "2005-12-28T07:28:26Z")
Yeah I realize that. It’s more of an attempt at satire. ---
**Author:** ![First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/First_Amongst_Daves)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/13 "2005-12-28T07:30:09Z")
A Russian has done something similar with [clouds](http://www.xsorbit1.com/users/incandescent/index.cgi?board=M&action=display&num=1105663659&start=1). Given the Moon is _terra nullius_ it makes for interesting legal speculation as to whether test ban treaties would apply to countries wanting to test big nukes on celestial bodies other than this one. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/14 "2005-12-28T07:38:23Z")
In Soviet Russia, clouds own _you_! ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/15 "2005-12-28T07:43:53Z")
This comes up all the time on the Bad Astronomy message board, and as others have pointed out, it’s a total scam. There _has_ been some legal action taken against a couple of these hucksters, IIRC, but it certainly hasn’t stopped them (I think one of them just had their Chinese operation shut down), just like the folks that run the “International Star Registry” scam. ---
**Author:** ![drbuzz0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@drbuzz0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drbuzz0)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/16 "2005-12-28T09:30:30Z")
Actually, the test ban treaty says that you cannot test nuclear weapons in outer space. I think it even mentions the moon, but even if not, it should be covered in genreral. ---
**Author:** ![drbuzz0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@drbuzz0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drbuzz0)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/17 "2005-12-28T10:17:07Z")
Actually…I just realized something. There _is_ a way to own a piece of the moon. You can buy a moon rock. Of course, Nasa won’t sell you any of the 800 lbs or so they have, so you have to find another source. My friend actually owns a Lunar meatorite sample, which we purchased from a reputable dealer connected with a major museam. It was authenticated by Nasa standards. Actually the sample he owns is only part of a much larger meatorite, which was authenticated as a whole. His sample is only a couple of grams and is embedded in a plastic case. A lunar meatorite is a piece of moon rock blown off by a collission with the moon. They’re very rare and thus even a few grams worth of one will be hella expensive. I don’t know how much he paid, but it’s not expensive enough to the degree that an average person couldn’t afford it. Of course, some say that it’s impossible to tell with 100% certainty that it’s from the moon, but you can be pretty damn sure it is. It’s identical in age and composition to the moon and there is nothing else that looks like it in the rest of the solar system. There are also Martian meatorites, but those are even more expensive. They have Venutian ones too, but as only about two or three small ones are even known to exist, it’d be pretty hard to get your hands on one of those. -Steve ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/18 "2005-12-28T13:35:54Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > As with any other land claim, if you can occupy the territory and defend it against all comers, then you own it. But you will note that this principle also applies to my claim on your house or to the United Kingdom of Earth. So, it’s not really a meaningful answer. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/19 "2005-12-28T15:01:21Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > The Lemur866 registry has exactly–EXACTLY–the same validity as the International Star Registry you hear advertised on the radio. > > And the Lunar Republic’s moon claims have exactly–EXACTLY–the same validity as the Lemur866 Republic’s moon claims. But…but… the International Star Registry records your star’s name in book form at the US Copyright office! ---
**Author:** ![gooftroopag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gooftroopag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gooftroopag)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369/20 "2005-12-28T15:34:05Z")
I own Rigel 7. If you’d like to come out some time, let me know and lend me your technology. 🙂 It’s the same old BS-scam, you might as well fake a UFO sighting and sell the video and the idea for big bucks… Hmmm, what other nasty parallels can I draw… Or form a doomsday cult and lay claim to a temple in Israel when you’ve never even visited there. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lunar-republic-and-properties-on-the-moon/337369.md?page=2)