# The Male Inequality Problem **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2025, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440 "2025-09-27T21:57:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/41 "2025-09-28T15:10:07Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The problem is American society used to be extremely sexist and racist. And now we’re only partly sexist and racist. No, this is not _the_ problem; it is _a_ problem; and I don’t think it’s the one that this thread is about. It is true that American society has been (and to some extent continues to be) sexist. Not all of that sexism has been to men’s benefit. Take, for example, the way young men have at times been expected or forced to serve in the military. It was women, not men, who had the privilege of not being forced to spend years of their lives sent who-knows-where to live in primitive, uncomfortable conditions and be at serious risk of being killed or maimed. On the other hand, at least during “popular” wars, men were valued and honored for doing this. Society told them, “We need you to do this for us. This is part of what being a man is. This is your role, your place.” Compare this with the OP’s article: > [@](#): > > It’s obviously true as we look around that many men and boys do feel somewhat lost. They don’t quite know their place in society. They don’t quite understand how they’re supposed to be. They very often know how they’re not supposed to be. So this sense of, “What’s my place in the world, why am I needed, what’s my role going to be going forward?” that’s a very real question that many men and boys are genuinely struggling with. Also, it seems to me that the “steps ahead” that white men enjoy in our society are in many cases advantages of the privileged, upper-class men. There may be a fallacy at work here, confusing the percentage of positions of privilege that are held by white men with the percentage of white men who hold positions of privilege. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/42 "2025-09-28T15:12:18Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > I only read the snippets from the original article, as quoted by the OP, but I immediately got a “Men are from Mars, Women from Venus” vibe. So boys need a role model that is a manly man with a stubble and a growly voice to grow up to become real men, lest they turn effeminate or…? > Hogwash. No, that’s not remotely what the article says. Quite the opposite. The author argues that boys need an _alternative_ to the manosphere bullshit and Andrew Tates of the world. It’s not an absence of “manly” men in community life, but an absence of men, period. The author talks at length about how poorly men do when they are cut off from community life and family ties - dramatically increasing the odds that they will be homeless, for example. Increasing rates of suicide and drug use. I don’t understand how people can look at the rising high rates of suicide and overdose in young men and just think, “oh well, they’re five steps ahead of women.” Like, in these domains they are demonstratively not. While I genuinely care about the men involved, there’s some amount of self-interest involved here. A lot of young men are going down a very dark path and using it as an excuse to oppress women. It seems like responding to young men’s unmet needs is part of the solution to making sure women maintain the gains we have. There are no quick fixes here. But feeling a modicum of compassion is a start. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/43 "2025-09-28T15:15:58Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Men and women have always been different, and will always be different. It is nature, and it is hardwired into us. This is true, but many (most?) of these differences are statistical, and do not apply to all individuals—like how men are, statistically, taller than women, but not every man is taller than every woman. Thus, it doesn’t work to expect men and women to be exactly the same, but neither does it work to expect all men to conform to one ideal and women to another. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/44 "2025-09-28T15:16:21Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Also, it seems to me that the “steps ahead” that white men enjoy in our society are in many cases advantages of the privileged, upper-class men. There may be a fallacy at work here, confusing the percentage of positions of provo;ege that are held by white men with the percentage of white men who hold positions of privilege. This is addressed directly in the article. The number of fortune 500 CEOs is 500. The number of men who are unemployed, underemployed, uneducated, wage suppressed, addicted, suicidal, etc is numbering in the millions. And as the article points out, we don’t really know about a lot of these men from a research perspective. We are having trouble finding them. Because they are increasingly isolated and disengaged from society. If you want to take a hard line and assert that is entirely their own fault, okay, but it’s still a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/45 "2025-09-28T15:26:40Z")
@DemonTree I think this subject might interest you. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/46 "2025-09-28T15:41:54Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > They don’t quite know their place in society. They don’t quite understand how they’re supposed to be. They very often know how they’re not supposed to be. So this sense of, “What’s my place in the world, why am I needed, what’s my role going to be going forward?” that’s a very real question that many men and boys are genuinely struggling with. [quote from the article] I don’t know anyone who asks these questions “What is my place in the world? Why am I needed?” Who does that? Maybe we need to study why everything is overthinking everything? Sure, wages are an issue, as is access to education (or alternatives). But the youngish men I know, aren’t wondering what their role is going forward. Nor am I, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/47 "2025-09-28T16:14:55Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t know anyone who asks these questions “What is my place in the world? Why am I needed?” Who does that? I think that’s a pretty common question for young people to ask. They might not realize that they’re asking that. I’m not sure it has to be a conscious process. But part of coming of age is trying to figure out where you fit in the grand scheme of things. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/48 "2025-09-28T16:25:01Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t know anyone who asks these questions “What is my place in the world? Why am I needed?” Who does that? Lots of people; all the people who complain about how their jobs are unpleasant, thankless and pointless, for example. They aren’t using those specific words, but that’s what they are asking; “What’s the point? Why do I need to be here doing this?” ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/49 "2025-09-28T16:30:31Z")
I am sure that if you prepared a list of adjectives, people would sort them into “masculine” vs “feminine”, but I suggest that it is better to focus on positive versus negative or self-destructive qualities. If your job sucks, for example, that cannot be good for your mental well-being regardless of your gender. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/50 "2025-09-28T16:31:38Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > This is addressed directly in the article. The number of fortune 500 CEOs is 500. The number of men who are unemployed, underemployed, uneducated, wage suppressed, addicted, suicidal, etc is numbering in the millions. And as the article points out, we don’t really know about a lot of these men from a research perspective. We are having trouble finding them. Because they are increasingly isolated and disengaged from society. If you want to take a hard line and assert that is entirely their own fault, okay, but it’s still a problem. I don’t think that it’s entirely their own fault. IMHO most of the problem (for this problem and many other societal ills) lays at the feet of the super wealthy privileged people. But collectively this group of men have the means of solving the problem, and refuse to do so. In fact they seem to be making their own problems worse by helping those super wealthy privileged people maintain that privilege. It’s also an old problem, as recognized by LBJ back when he was POTUS, not something new to today’s generation of young men. Of course what also isn’t new is the lack of solution to the problem of how to get these men to stop supporting the people that are causing their own problems. I have no idea how to do so, but apparently neither did people a lot smarter than me, as shown by LBJ having failed to figure it out back in the 60s. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/51 "2025-09-28T16:33:18Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Thus, it doesn’t work to expect men and women to be exactly the same, but neither does it work to expect all men to conform to one ideal and women to another. Yeah, I think that’s the crux of the issue. I’ve been pretty skeptical of the claim some make that there are people out there arguing there are no differences between sexes and gender doesn’t matter, but I’m surprised to see some of that in this thread. It flies in the face of my experience and the way I know the world to be. There are pretty clear population differences. I think some people assume innate differences that don’t exist - I don’t, for example, think there’s an innate maternal instinct for housekeeping and trad wive shit that feminists are secretly denying (I’ve seen this argued.) But certainly there are social differences, there are differences with how women and men organize themselves, how we negotiate status. At the population level it seems, to me, pretty obvious. So any potential solutions to the issues we are facing might have some variance depending on the population being targeted. When the author talks about the dearth of men in community life, the dearth of mentors, he’s not talking about a particular model of masculinity. He’s talking about a kid’s capacity to look around him and see the many ways there are to be a man. In the absence of those possibilities, he’s only got one idea - misogynist PUA bullshit. I don’t think it helps to deny that boys don’t look at men and girls don’t look at women as role models. I really think that’s something a lot of kids do naturally. When I was growing up it was my Aunt, and that got me through some shit, let me tell you. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/52 "2025-09-28T16:34:08Z")
Whatever is the solution to capitalist pigs, corrupt dictators, etc., it is probably not to bring more women into the picture… ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/53 "2025-09-28T16:38:00Z")
In occupations where women are over represented, it is most often due to a disparity in wages compared to men. So fix the pay imbalance that sees some professions mostly female, and the problem will fix itself. It’s silly to think that teaching, nursing, counselling etc are female dominated for any feminist reason whatsoever. It’s the wages! ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/54 "2025-09-28T16:41:57Z")
I don’t know if you’re being tongue-in-cheek or not, but wages definitely does not sound like the primary reason women go into teaching, which is often underpaid. And what do you mean “wages compared to men?” Women aren’t paid more than men in teaching or nursing. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/55 "2025-09-28T16:53:02Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > When the author talks about the dearth of men in community life, the dearth of mentors, he’s not talking about a particular model of masculinity. He’s talking about a kid’s capacity to look around him and see the many ways there are to be a man. In the absence of those possibilities, he’s only got one idea - misogynist PUA bullshit. I don’t think it helps to deny that boys don’t look at men and girls don’t look at women as role models. I really think that’s something a lot of kids do naturally. When I was growing up it was my Aunt, and that got me through some shit, let me tell you. Maybe I’m just not looking in the right places, but is this actually the case? I mean men have to be somewhere. My assumption, based on what I personally see in my community, isn’t that the men in general have disappeared or that they are not out there in the community. It’s that a lot of those men, in the last 10 years, have become open proponents of toxic masculinity. In other words we aren’t lacking in the overall numbers male role models. What we’re lacking is kind decent men like Jimmy Carter as opposed to those already mentioned several times (Andrew Tate, Jordan Peterson, Charlie Kirk, etc.). That older cousin that taught me being a man involved things like playing chess, or knowing algebra, and yes, liking fast cars like Corvettes, has now become that older cousin that teaches their younger cousin that being a man involves things like hating minorities and keeping women in their place. ETA: I don’t mean those particular individuals. I mean young men in their 20s that are teaching preteens in the present day vs. the young men in their 20s that were teaching preteens back in the 80s when I was growing up. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/56 "2025-09-28T16:53:55Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > He’s talking about a kid’s capacity to look around him and see the many ways there are to be a man. How is that not possible? There may be fewer men teaching, but there are some. There may be more women firefighters, but men are still doing the job too. I didn’t see too many ways to be a man 50 years ago, but I knew enough to recoil against my father’s worst traits and admire his good one. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Procrustus](#): > > > > I don’t know anyone who asks these questions “What is my place in the world? Why am I needed?” Who does that? > > Lots of people; all the people who complain about how their jobs are unpleasant, thankless and pointless, for example. They aren’t using those specific words, but that’s what they are asking; “What’s the point? Why do I need to be here doing this?” That’s pretty much everyone, though. I have two daughters who feel that way at least as much (probably more) than men their age. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/57 "2025-09-28T16:57:19Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > It’s silly to think that teaching, nursing, counselling etc are female dominated for any feminist reason whatsoever. It’s the wages! And the hostility and paranoia towards men. My brother works with disabled children, and he’s told me about how he’s basically treated as a born criminal; like how he has to be within sight of a woman at all times. Not because _they_ mistrust him you understand, but because society at large thinks of men as all pedophiles and abusers, and they want to avoid getting sued for letting one of those evil, evil men be around a child without a woman watching him. Somehow I doubt that sort of hostility encourages men to enter the field, much less stay in it. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/58 "2025-09-28T17:34:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > and they want to avoid getting sued I think there’s a lot of nonsense perpetrated not just in this instance but in general over fears of getting sued. My first impression of the educational system since I now have a kindergartner is that a tremendous amount of policy and procedure, which is on its face ridiculous and inconvenient, stems from the fear of getting sued. As a society, we need to get over it. > [@elbows](#): > > It’s silly to think that teaching, nursing, counselling etc are female dominated for any feminist reason whatsoever. It’s the wages! Does anyone think that? I don’t think that. Well, clinical psychology I’m less sure about, because I’m married to a clinical psychologist. Most of his peers are women and they all make good money. This isn’t a field that seems to be paying less now that it’s all feminized. Social work has always been feminized and therefore low paid. I think there are a lot of reasons you see gender disparities in specific jobs and some don’t even necessarily have to do with gender. Or maybe gender is a proxy for something else. (I’m not really talking about engineering and other STEM fields that have been shown to have a lot of sexism. I’m thinking more like how so many forensic scientists are women. Why? Feminism? Seems far-fetched.) I don’t know enough about education to speculate. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/59 "2025-09-28T17:41:06Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > But collectively this group of men have the means of solving the problem, and refuse to do so. Do you mean voting Democrat? Because I am a Democrat, and will probably always be a Democrat, but I don’t think Democrats are offering many solutions to anyone, much less working class men. A lot of these guys are really depressed and it’s hard to do anything when you’re depressed. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/60 "2025-09-28T17:43:22Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Do you mean voting Democrat? Because I am a Democrat, and will probably always be a Democrat, but I don’t think Democrats are offering many solutions to anyone, much less working class men. If anything, we can easily point the finger at white women for refusing to vote Democrat. If they really cared about themselves, they’d obviously vote Democrat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440.md?page=4)