# The Male Inequality Problem **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2025, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440 "2025-09-27T21:57:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Calder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Calder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calder)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/981 "2026-06-24T18:59:31Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > The manosphere host simply said something like, “Men don’t care about any of that. We don’t care about your job or how much money you make.” And then he went on about her making a choice to focus on her career and now that she’s in her late 30s or early 40s it’s too late because single men her age prefer younger women. The studies I have seen show that somewhere between 15-25% of men under 40 are moderately or more influenced by the manosphere. It is weird to me that we are using such a small minority to paint a brush of what the rest of Men are like. Honestly, that percentage tracks with my own experience. In college, a similar share of guys were misogynistic assholes whom I didn’t want to be around or associated with. I suspect this is another case of a small vocal minority spewing toxic garbage and becoming extremely visible because that is what social media does. ---
**Author:** ![Calder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Calder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calder)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/982 "2026-06-24T19:08:18Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I once asked Mrs. Odesio not to mow the lawn because I felt as though it made me look like a deadbeat husband. Is that silly? Yeah. My parents’ first big drag-out fight was over my mom mowing the lawn when she was very pregnant and my dad getting lambasted by the neighbors over it. (This would have been 1960s.) The problem was that she enjoyed mowing the lawn. As I understand it, she had to lambast the neighbors before this got resolved. But i agree with you that today if I saw a women mowing the lawn I wouldn’t think anything of it. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/983 "2026-06-24T19:33:42Z")
When the lawn gets mown, i do it. I wanted a house with land, and he wanted a condo where someone else took care of that stuff. Our agreement was that i could buy as much yard as i was willing to care for. We got comments from the neighbors at first, but they’ve gotten used to it. I didn’t mow all last year, and just decided not to care about having a yard with weeds. Maybe the neighbors will stop inviting us to block parties, but I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/984 "2026-06-24T20:22:48Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > If the honest message for women (and I’m sure there are a lot of men who don’t feel this way, but there also seem to be plenty of them asserting that this is the default baseline position for men in general) is _”It doesn’t really matter to us how intelligent, honorable, reliable, competent, successful, fulfilled, interesting, etc. you are as a person. What we want from a woman for marriage purposes is conventional youthful attractiveness, so without that you can just forget about getting married”_… then… why bother? I don’t think that’s accurate. I think for most men, #1 on the list would be virtue, followed by attractiveness. As for career, educational attainment, professional acomplishments, etc. I think (for most men) those are farther down on the list. I’d even go as far to say that most men don’t really care about those things at all. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/985 "2026-06-24T20:28:41Z")
Okay this may sound strange, but a large part of what my wife and I found attractive about each other is that we found each other attractive? It’s a feed forward. Being validated as attractive (not just physically but inclusive of) is attractive. We want to be wanted. Compatible values was important to get beyond the first few dates but that mutuality was a first bar. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/986 "2026-06-24T20:47:38Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I don’t think that’s accurate. I think for most men, #1 on the list would be virtue, followed by attractiveness. What the fuck is “virtue”? ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/987 "2026-06-24T20:49:54Z")
Virtue is beauty, but the beauteous evil Are empty trunks, o’erflourished by the devil. —Shakespeare, _Twelfth Night_ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/988 "2026-06-24T22:01:02Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I think for most men, #1 on the list would be virtue, followed by attractiveness. As for career, educational attainment, professional acomplishments, etc. I think (for most men) those are farther down on the list. I’d even go as far to say that most men don’t really care about those things at all. Once again, I’m sure it’s not how it’s intended, but this message keeps coming across as super dismissive of women’s individual interests, personalities and self-fulfillment. _”As long as you’re virtuous”_ [? I agree with @Alessan in not really understanding what that’s intended to mean] _”and conventionally attractive, we don’t care about what you think or what you’re interested in or what you care about and are trying to accomplish in the world or what you think is funny or what you like to do. You’re basically interchangeable with any of the other virtuous hot women in the world.”_ Gee, how romantic, I guess? Like I said, this very utilitarian attitude towards marriage on the part of men was less of a dealbreaker back when more women were thoroughly convinced that they HAD to get a man to marry them in order not to lead a despised and wasted life. Nowadays, though, I dunno. Maybe if that’s how it is, it could be more satisfying in the long run to be appreciated outside of marriage for the contributions to the world and the professional success and fulfillment and achievement of dreams that the potential husbands are telling you that they don’t give a rat’s ass about? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/989 "2026-06-24T22:09:16Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Maybe if that’s how it is, it could be more satisfying in the long run to be appreciated outside of marriage for the contributions to the world and the professional success and fulfillment and achievement of dreams Oh hell yes. If that’s the goal of a man in marriage, i have zero interest in helping him satisfy it. Fortunately, there are men out there who are looking for a partner, and who care about things like… who that woman is, and > [@Kimstu](#): > > how intelligent, honorable, reliable, competent, successful, fulfilled, interesting, etc. you are as a person. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/990 "2026-06-24T22:21:41Z")
As a never-married woman with a happy single life but also a lot of respect and appreciation for the marriages I see around me, I remain convinced that many, probably most, marriages are very beneficial for both spouses, as growing and thriving individuals as well as marital teammates. I believe that while marriage isn’t the only good way to live and be happy, it’s often a very good way to live and be happy. But getting told by not insignificant numbers of men how uninterested they are in the characteristics of their wives or potential wives **as individual people** tends to undermine that conviction somewhat. Geez, guys, what happened to the concept of “soulmates”? (Yes, I know that statistically and psychologically speaking, there’s no such thing as The One True Love who’s the only fellow human being in the world that you could ever have been happily partnered with. But isn’t the hallmark of a happy marriage that it makes you **feel** like that’s what you’ve got?) [_looks around at all the fragments of shattered illusions_] Welp, anyway, guess I should start cleaning these up now… ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/991 "2026-06-24T22:26:34Z")
> [@Calder](#): > > The studies I have seen show that somewhere between 15-25% of men under 40 are moderately or more influenced by the manosphere. It is weird to me that we are using such a small minority to paint a brush of what the rest of Men are like. 15-25% isn’t a small minority, it’s a pretty significant one. At the top of the estimate, it would mean 1 in 4 men under the age of 40 are at least moderately influenced by the manosphere. Who knows what trickle down affect this has on the rest of the men in that age group. > [@Alessan](#): > > What the fuck is “virtue”? Laughing at my jokes. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/992 "2026-06-24T22:28:24Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > > [@Alessan](#): > > > > What the fuck is “virtue”? > > Laughing at my jokes. Okay, well, I achieved virtuousness that one time, at least. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/993 "2026-06-24T22:37:51Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But getting told by not insignificant numbers of men how uninterested they are in the characteristics of their wives or potential wives **as individual people** tends to undermine that conviction somewhat. Geez, guys, what happened to the concept of “soulmates”? All that lecturing about how terrible and stupid men are convinced them that they weren’t ever going to find a woman who _liked_ them, so they might as well go for the shallow surface appeal? Or just porn; porn is an inanimate object but at least doesn’t despise you. Just look at this thread; many people can’t hold a conversation about men that _isn’t_ a long harangue about how terrible they are. It doesn’t even matter if they are right or wrong for this point, because right or wrong the one thing it isn’t, is appealing. Heck, that’s just the gender flipped version of what people were saying about women not finding men who look down on them appealing. Of course they don’t, neither gender does; but gender relations being what they are that’s what both genders often get. I’ve actually noticed men get very worked up about romance…in stories. There’s plenty of men who like the _idea_ of romance. But in the real world, a relationship with somebody who thinks you are stupid and violent and who blames you for everything wrong in the world isn’t appealing to most. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/994 "2026-06-24T22:50:45Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > All that lecturing about how terrible and stupid men are convinced them that they weren’t ever going to find a woman who _liked_ them, so they might as well go for the shallow surface appeal? But ISTM that the men who are describing men’s marital priorities in this utilitarian way are doing so because **they regard it as part of the traditionally recognized essential nature of men.** Not because they think men’s priorities have recently altered in response to feminist critiques over the last couple decades or so. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/995 "2026-06-24T22:51:59Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Just look at this thread; many people can’t hold a conversation about men that _isn’t_ a long harangue about how terrible they are Cite, though? Who exactly do you think is exhibiting that behavior in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/996 "2026-06-24T22:52:20Z")
Personally, i think feminist men make great friends and partners. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/997 "2026-06-24T23:06:20Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Okay, well, I achieved virtuousness that one time, at least. Yea, I should have said “virtuousness” and not “virtue.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2026, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/998 "2026-06-25T02:40:19Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Cite, though? Who exactly do you think is exhibiting that behavior in this thread? Nearly everyone. This is _supposedly_ about “male inequality”, but any time anyone tries to talk about a problem men have there’s a chorus of “that’s actually an advantage”, “they deserve it”, and/or “that’s not true”. This isn’t a conversation that can actually be held on this forum. It’s pretty much The Narcissist’s Prayer repurposed as misandrism. > _That didn’t happen._ > _And if it did, it wasn’t that bad._ > _And if it was, that’s not a big deal._ > _And if it is, that’s not my fault._ > _And if it was, I didn’t mean it._ > _And if I did, you deserved it._ Just replace _I/my_ with _we/our._ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2026, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/999 "2026-06-25T04:35:01Z")
Ah, I see the goalposts have moved from _“a long harangue about how terrible men are”_ to basically any kind of nuanced discussion about the nature of problems impacting men. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2026, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440/1000 "2026-06-25T12:04:02Z")
What “nuanced discussion”? There’s little willingness to admit that any _exist._ Scrolling up, the recent discussion is about how “men can’t attract women because men are bigots”, “men don’t socialize”, and “being a woman is about suffering and injustice”. It’s all about men _being_ the problem, not having problems. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-male-inequality-problem/1023440.md?page=51)