# The Man-Eating Myth: Are reports of cultural cannibalism believable? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 19, 2008, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-eating-myth-are-reports-of-cultural-cannibalism-believable/460505 "2008-08-19T01:09:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-eating-myth-are-reports-of-cultural-cannibalism-believable/460505/1 "2008-08-19T01:09:17Z")
(To make it obvious, ‘cultural cannibalism’ is my nonce term for cannibalism that is a part of a culture, not the behavior of a deranged individual (Dahmer) or the actions of people in an emergency (Donner).) [In “The Man-eating Myth: Anthropology and Anthropophagy”, W. Arens seems to doubt many historical stores of cultural cannibalism](http://tafkac.org/books/man-eating_myth.html): > [@](#): > > He seems to have examined just about every society accused of cannibalism - Africa, New Guinea, North America, the Aztecs, prehistoric man, and so on. He tries to find credible witnesses to the act and (in a process that will be familiar to anyone who’s tried to find the source of an urban legend) generally manages only to find that the so-called witnesses are only recounting what they’ve been told. > > **He points out that many explorers’ descriptions of cannibalism are inherently unreliable, because the Spanish royal proclamation of 1503 specifically permitted the use of cannibals - and only cannibals - for slaves.** He even has an answer to the existence of kuru: > [@](#): > > “While this book was in press, Gajdusek began to treat the cannibal notion more cautiously, since he is now quoted as saying that ‘there has been so far no convincing evidence that the infections can be acquired by eating or drinking affected material or by any means other than direct invasion of the bloodstream’ (Schmeck 1978:16).” So, is Arens creditable? Is there evidence he’s wrong, and that cultural cannibalism did or does exist? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-eating-myth-are-reports-of-cultural-cannibalism-believable/460505/2 "2008-08-19T01:15:41Z")
My favorite anthropologist, Marvin Harris, devotes an entire chapter to anthropophagy in his book **Good to Eat** , in which he gives his rebuttals to Arens. Harris has a reason – he championed Michael Harner’s theory that Aztec human sacrifices ended up being eaten. It’s not quite accurate )as Harris points out) to say that the Aztecs performed sacrifice “in order to get some meat.” But it would certainly be inviting. ---
**Author:** ![adirondack\_mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5a626/32.png) [@adirondack\_mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adirondack_mike)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-eating-myth-are-reports-of-cultural-cannibalism-believable/460505/3 "2008-08-19T03:07:52Z")
Book review in the Washingon Post - 7/30/08 AMONG THE CANNIBALSL Adventures on the Trail of Man’s Darkest Ritual, by Paul Raffaele. From the article: > [@](#): > > In 1979, the American anthropologist William Arens published an influential book arguing that tribal and ritual cannibalism has never existed; he held that the innumerable firsthand accounts were all racist lies advanced to justify conquest and colonization. It is unfortunate for Raffaele, and his readers, that Arens and his disciples are still taken seriously in academia, because it forces him to keep presenting evidence, over and over again with increasing exasperation, that, yes, all over the world – including medieval Europe where people ate pieces of mummified corpses to cure certain diseases – human beings have practiced cannibalism. Dismissing accounts because of a Spanish decree does not rule out other accounts and does not necessarily rule out reports from Spanish explorers. The decree that permitted only cannibals for slaves could very well be because there really were cannibals. Certainly the quantity of human sacrifice practiced by the Aztecs should have met a criteria for “use as slaves” by the Spanish. Human sacrifice at least is documented by the Spanish explorers, the Aztecs, and by archaeological evidence. There is also incontrovertible evidence of the Anasazi practicing cannibalism (from [Archaeological Instiute of America](http://www.archaeology.org/9709/newsbriefs/anasazi.html)): > [@](#): > > Human remains found at a twelfth-century A.D. site near Cowboy Wash in southwestern Colorado provide further evidence of cannibalism among the Anasazi (see “A Case for Cannibalism,” ARCHAEOLOGY, January/February 1994). The remains of 12 people were discovered at the site, designated 5MT10010, but only five were from burials. The other seven appear to have been systematically dismembered, defleshed, their bones battered, and in some cases burned or stewed, leaving them in the same condition as bones of animals used for food. Cut marks, fractures, and other stone-tool scars were present on the bones, and the light color of some suggests stewing. Patterns of burning indicate that many were exposed to flame while still covered with flesh, which is what would be expected after cooking over a fire. > > Human remains from other sites in the area were similarly treated, and three explanations have been proposed: hunger-induced cannibalism, ritual cannibalism adopted from Mesoamerica, or something else altogether. Patricia Lambert of Utah State University and Brian Billman and Banks Leonard of Soil Systems, the contract archaeology firm that excavated 5MT10010, propose that cannibalism was associated with violent conflict between Anasazi communities in the mid-1100s, contemporary with a period of drought and the collapse of the Chaco system. They note a sharp increase in evidence of cannibalism between 1130 and 1150, followed in each case by the abandonment of the site, then a decrease in the early 1200s as the climate improved. It seems to have gone on over an extended period of time. More then would be expected from a single event like the Donner party. My impression of Arens is that he a priori believes that cannibalism does not exist and makes his case while disregarding and dismissing contrary evidence out of hand because the observers may be biased without showing that the bias actually exists. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-eating-myth-are-reports-of-cultural-cannibalism-believable/460505/4 "2008-08-19T13:00:22Z")
[QUOTE=adirondack\_mike] My impression of Arens is that he a priori believes that cannibalism does not exist and makes his case while disregarding and dismissing contrary evidence out of hand because the observers may be biased without showing that the bias actually exists. [/QUOTE] OK, that makes sense. Thanks, everyone, for the enlightening thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-eating-myth-are-reports-of-cultural-cannibalism-believable/460505/5 "2008-08-19T13:51:39Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] (To make it obvious, ‘cultural cannibalism’ is my nonce term for cannibalism that is a part of a culture, not the behavior of a deranged individual (Dahmer) or the actions of people in an emergency (Donner).) [In “The Man-eating Myth: Anthropology and Anthropophagy”, W. Arens seems to doubt many historical stores of cultural cannibalism](http://tafkac.org/books/man-eating_myth.html):He even has an answer to the existence of kuru:So, is Arens creditable? Is there evidence he’s wrong, and that cultural cannibalism did or does exist? [/QUOTE] Allegedly, some isolated tribes in New Guinea still serve man; for certain they still did well into the 20th century. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-eating-myth-are-reports-of-cultural-cannibalism-believable/460505/6 "2008-08-19T15:02:49Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] Thanks, everyone, for the enlightening thread. [/QUOTE] Enlightening, that is, unless you’re having lunch right now. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-eating-myth-are-reports-of-cultural-cannibalism-believable/460505/7 "2008-08-19T15:52:22Z")
[QUOTE=Ale] Allegedly, some isolated tribes in New Guinea still serve man; for certain they still did well into the 20th century. [/QUOTE] Yep. There’s almost certain evidence of cannibalism in New Guinea, by way of the history of the disease [Kuru.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuru_(disease)) ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-eating-myth-are-reports-of-cultural-cannibalism-believable/460505/8 "2008-08-19T16:27:55Z")
[QUOTE=sqweels] Enlightening, that is, unless you’re having lunch right now. [/QUOTE] Well, depends on what you are having for lunch… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-eating-myth-are-reports-of-cultural-cannibalism-believable/460505/9 "2008-08-19T16:34:16Z")
[The Master Speaks](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_054.html) That is still one impressive column on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-eating-myth-are-reports-of-cultural-cannibalism-believable/460505/10 "2008-08-19T16:42:17Z")
I recall seeing a documentary on TV once where cannibals were interviewed. IIRC it was in New Guinea and one woman described eating a piece of her mother as part of a funeral ritual. She said she had loved her mother right up until her death from natural causes, and now, her mother would always be a part of her. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-eating-myth-are-reports-of-cultural-cannibalism-believable/460505/11 "2008-08-19T17:52:04Z")
[QUOTE=adirondack\_mike] Dismissing accounts because of a Spanish decree does not rule out other accounts and does not necessarily rule out reports from Spanish explorers. The decree that permitted only cannibals for slaves could very well be because there really were cannibals. Certainly the quantity of human sacrifice practiced by the Aztecs should have met a criteria for “use as slaves” by the Spanish. Human sacrifice at least is documented by the Spanish explorers, the Aztecs, and by archaeological evidence. [/QUOTE] The allegation that certain tribes were identified as cannibals for political reasons by the Spanish has to be one of the silliest claims made by those who deny the reality of cultural cannibalism. In the Caribbean, for example, the Taino (Arawaks) possessed the larger, richer islands of the Greater Antilles, the primary object of Spanish conquest, yet they were not alleged to be cannibals (and this was not used as an excuse to enslave them). On the other hand, the Caribs (who gave their names to “cannibalism”) inhabited mostly smaller islands in the Lesser Antilles, which the Spanish were not particularly interested in. Why should the Spanish have highlighted cannibalism among the Caribs, and not the Arawak, if an excuse for conquest were needed? And the Spanish never really required much of an excuse to enslave Indians, cannibal or not. Likewise, while the Aztecs were alleged to be cannibals (and as has been said, there is ample evidence for very large scale human sacrifice), the Incas, the other major Empire the Spanish conquered, were not. If politics were involved, why didn’t the Spanish make such claims against the Incas or many other groups? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-eating-myth-are-reports-of-cultural-cannibalism-believable/460505/12 "2008-08-19T22:03:17Z")
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**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-eating-myth-are-reports-of-cultural-cannibalism-believable/460505/13 "2008-08-19T22:13:31Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] On the other hand, the Caribs (who gave their names to “cannibalism”) [/QUOTE] Don’t you mean they gave their name to the Caribbean? Regardless, I agree that cannibalism deniers are starting to look more and more like Holocaust deniers. I suspect that many cannibalism deniers are descendants of cultures that used to practice cannibalism. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-eating-myth-are-reports-of-cultural-cannibalism-believable/460505/14 "2008-08-19T23:42:54Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] Is there evidence he’s wrong, and that cultural cannibalism did or does exist? [/QUOTE] There appears substantial first and second hand evidence for cultural cannibalism having existed among some of the Maori of New Zealand, even unto relatively recent post-European-contact times, a particular late example being the Maori invasion of the Chatham Islands, and subsequent slaughter of the indigenous [Moriori](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori) people. > [@Wikipedia](#): > > In 1835 some Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama people, Māori from the Taranaki region of the North Island of New Zealand settled in the Chathams. On November 19, 1835, a chartered European ship, the Rodney, carrying 500 Maori armed with guns, clubs and axes arrived, followed by another ship with 400 more Maori arriving on December 5, 1835. They proceeded to enslave some Moriori and kill and cannibalise others. [This page](http://www.heretical.com/cannibal/nzealand.html) offers a selection of relevant quotes. (I have no idea if the site is reputable _per se_ however… and I haven’t found another source for the Cook journal entry). > [@Captain Cook](#): > > One of the gentlemen bought the head and brought it on board, where a piece of the flesh was broiled and eaten by one of the natives, before all the officers and most of the men… One of the cannibals thereupon bit and gnawed the human arm which Banks had picked up, drawing it through his mouth and showing by signs that the flesh to him was a dainty bit. Tupia carried on the conversation: ‘Where are the heads?’ he asked. ‘Do you eat them too?’ ‘Of the heads,’ answered an old man, ‘we eat only the brains.’ Later he brought on board Endeavour four of the heads of the seven victims. The hair and flesh were entire, but we perceived that the brains had been extracted. The flesh was soft, but had by some method been preserved from putrefaction, for it had no disagreeable smell… ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2008, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-eating-myth-are-reports-of-cultural-cannibalism-believable/460505/15 "2008-08-20T00:24:01Z")
[QUOTE=adirondack\_mike] My impression of Arens is that he a priori believes that cannibalism does not exist and makes his case while disregarding and dismissing contrary evidence out of hand because the observers may be biased without showing that the bias actually exists. [/QUOTE] Arens’s book is more subtle than secondhand recountings of his argument tend to make it appear. Strictly, his argument was not that cannibalism has never existed, but that anthropologists had been too ready to uncritically accept secondhand reports of its existance. Depending on one’s preconceptions, one may or may not find his reasons for being wary of different accounts convincing, but he does explain those reasons. (Personally, I suspect his suggested alternative explantions for _kuru_ were a stretch when the book was written and developments since have hardly bolstered his case in this instance.) Arens has in fact appeared to be relatively open to new evidence. For instance, interviewed by Douglas Preston for a _New Yorker_ profile of Christy Turner in November 1998, he happily agreed, on the basis of Turner and others’ archaeological work, that it was entirely possible that some of the Anasazi were routinely practicing cannibalism. While still sceptical, he doesn’t appear to be totally close minded on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2008, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-eating-myth-are-reports-of-cultural-cannibalism-believable/460505/16 "2008-08-20T02:36:09Z")
[QUOTE=Diceman] Don’t you mean they gave their name to the Caribbean? [/QUOTE] They gave their name to both. The word “cannibal” is derived from Carib, as is the name Caribbean. From Merriam-Webster: > [@](#): > > Main Entry: can·ni·bal > Etymology: New Latin Canibalis Carib, from Spanish Caníbal, from Taino Caniba, of Cariban origin; akin to Carib kariʔna Carib, person > Date: 1553