# The man who hated Billy Joel **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 27, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282 "2009-01-27T20:59:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/1 "2009-01-27T20:59:06Z")
I’ve seen some Billy Joel hate over the years, [but this critic takes the laurel](http://www.slate.com/id/2209526/). I like some of Billy Joel and other stuff is kind of “meh”, but there’s no way he deserves the hard on this posturing jackass wants to beat him over the head with. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/2 "2009-01-27T21:21:24Z")
He’s ceretainly not alone. Jimmy Guterman and Owen O’Donnell listed Billy Joel as “The Worst Rock and Roller of All Time” in their book **The Worst Rock and Roll Records of All Time** , [Worst Rock-And-Roll Records of All Time: A Fan's Guide to the Stuff You Love to Hate: Guterman, Jimmy, O'Donnell, Owen: 9780756750473: Amazon.com: Books](http://www.amazon.com/Worst-Rock-Roll-Records-Time/dp/0756750474/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233090710&sr=1-8) Their main gripe seems to be that what Billy Joel does isn’t Rock and Roll: > [@](#): > > Even worse, he began to perceive himself as a rock and roller, a belief that bore no relation to his music, which remained predominantly smooth, Tin Pan Alley-derived pop. He had much more in common with aaron Copland than with Aaron Neville. (p. 249) Davw Barry’s got not nice things to say about Billy in his various columns about Bad Songs. I find the Guterman and O’Donnell book fascinating, but I don’t connect with it. To my eternal disgrace, I _like_ Billy Joel. I clearly have no understanding of Rock. ---
**Author:** ![Strainger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strainger/32/244_2.png) [@Strainger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strainger)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/3 "2009-01-27T21:24:16Z")
Warning: Ad at the link in the OP has sound. Jackasses. (Not the OP, but advertisers who put automatic sound in their ads) ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/4 "2009-01-27T21:25:21Z")
Made it about halfway through that drivel. The dude takes himself way too seriously. He’s a pissant with a keyboard. Billy Joel ain’t Robert Plant or Ronnie Van Zant, but he’s tolerable. Much more so than Manilow. _Piano Man_ is one of my favorite mellow songs. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/5 "2009-01-27T21:25:41Z")
I like Billy Joel, and think he’s one of the best lyricists in rock. Admittedly, he’s more soft rock than hard rock, but he’s still pretty damn good. The only serious argument I read from a Joel-hating critic was that the problem was the Joel really was a Broadway composer. And I think that’s dead on. If Joel were twenty years older, his work would be on Broadway, and it’s likely he’d be perfectly at home. I’m surprised he hasn’t tried his hand at writing a musical ( **Movin’ Out** doesn’t count for anything\*). But whenever I first hear any Billy Joel song, I am always impressed by the quality of the lyrics. \*Unless you consider random jumping around without any regard to the beat of the music or how the entire mishmosh looks like on stage “dancing.” ---
**Author:** ![Art\_Rock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/art_rock/32/525_2.png) [@Art\_Rock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Art_Rock)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/6 "2009-01-27T21:26:08Z")
Another great artist much maligned. Goodnight Saigon, James, She’s always a woman to me - all masterpieces. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/7 "2009-01-27T21:40:38Z")
I like Billy Joel. I don’t agree with the article’s characterization of a lot of songs, e.g.: _“Only the Good Die Young”: Contempt for the Catholic religion. I know: It’s spirited if anti-spiritual, but, still … I’ve heard some Catholic girls opine on its most famous line (“Catholic girls start much too late”), and they ain’t buyin’ it. B.J. is no James Joyce._ It’s such a fun song…and clever. Maybe it’s pop or rock; I don’t know. He made some observations, it’s a catchy tune, and if it isn’t James Joyce I don’t care. In fact, isn’t it supposed to be rebellious? Or this: \*Well, I really can’t stand the “man of the people” stuff. Like “Allentown” and "The Downeaster ‘Alexa.’ " Yeah, he’s a real working man, that B.J. Sure, other artists strike that pose, but somehow with B.J. the strain of his pretension is just too much to bear. \* I.e. God forbid a popular artist should champion causes, bring awareness to the masses? What planet is he on? Overall, isn’t this an old angle? If something sells, it’s popular and therefore can’t be any good if you have taste. Criticize what someone else does so you look smarter than him? I can think of other acts with less talent and less to say. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/8 "2009-01-27T21:50:10Z")
I can appreciate his lyrics, but his music ain’t my cuppa. I don’t hate him, but on a scale of 1 to 10, I’d put him at a boring, vanilla, emotionless, flatline 5. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/9 "2009-01-27T21:52:22Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I like some of Billy Joel and other stuff is kind of “meh”, but there’s no way he deserves the hard on this posturing jackass wants to beat him over the head with. No, I disagree. The author gets pretentious in several places and I think his attitude toward Joel’s phoniness is inconsistent - is every wealthy musician who writes about poor people a faker, or can’t they be writing about what they see in the world? - but mostly I’d say he’s on target. I knew instantly that the author had to be from Long Island, because if you’re not from Long Island or at least downstate New York you probably don’t know how badly the whole region is drenched in Billy Joel fandom and how much he’s revered by many people. (How many times has he gotten drunk and flipped his car onto somebody’s lawn? 15? He probably landed on a fan’s grass every time.) Most of his work is ignorable, but if you live there for a while and don’t like what he does, it gets incredibly grating. I’d have explained it a little differently but I think my point would be close to Rosenbaum’s: Joel’s lyrics mix shallow cynicism with mushy sentimentality in a way that rings false. Many people respond to this mix, but if it doesn’t work for you it’s very irritating. One of my brothers just loved “Leningrad,” for example, but it’s a maudlin and ridiculous song to my ears. [And apparently it’s a true story](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leningrad_(song)), so I don’t know what that says for Joel’s writing. That’s not the type of song that really bugs me, though, it’s the faux-jadedness that irritates me the most- both Joel’s and his audience. I’m not going to say all of his songs suck; for starters I’m fine with You May Be Right and Downeaster Alexa, and The Stranger is okay. We Didn’t Start the Fire sucks, although at this stage I don’t think that even needs to be said anymore. It’s probably also true that the rock label doesn’t apply to him. I don’t see that as a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/10 "2009-01-27T21:54:20Z")
I love Billy Joel. I think _The Nylon Curtain_ is a masterpiece. I’m really not sure where this guy is coming from; all the crappy music out there over the years and he somehow fixates on Billy Joel as the worst offender? 😕 And he really is only focusing on the lyrics; as Damone said about Cheap Trick in “Fast Times at Ridgemont High”: “What about the tunes?” ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/11 "2009-01-27T22:09:49Z")
Pretty poor IMO. Billy Joel is a great musician - wonderful chops and has written some of the most memorable tunes of all time (cheesy it might be, but I’m pretty sure that if you busted out and wrote “Just The Way You Are” for your SO you’d be drowning is sex for years). Some of his stuff hasn’t aged well, and his fanbase is not exactly the coolest (middle aged lawyers driving Mercedes). But he isn’t the worst piano man out there, not by miles. I don’t even consider myself a fan, but if “It’s Still Rock and Roll To Me” comes on I’m gonna turn the radio up… ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/12 "2009-01-27T22:17:06Z")
My opinion on the article was express [in this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10750462&postcount=98) from BBQ thread on U2. In the comments after the Slate article there was one that said in terms of the quality of their music, Joel was awfully similar to his sometime tour-mate Elton John. Basically, they both did a lot of interesting stuff early in their career before settling into a long period of bland mediocrity. I generally agree with that statement. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/13 "2009-01-27T23:15:44Z")
> [@](#): > > He had much more in common with aaron Copland than with Aaron Neville. What? Aaron Neville is a rocker now? This is tiring. He’s saying “not only is Billy Joel bad, all those who like his music are classless heathens as well.” Seriously. If A sucks, and you like A, then YOU suck. This attitude is well and good when we are discussing out likes and dislikes on a message board, but not so much when published for the masses. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/14 "2009-01-27T23:29:44Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > This attitude is well and good when we are discussing out likes and dislikes on a message board, but not so much when published for the masses. Why is that? In any case I saw plenty of contempt for Joel in that article but little for his fans. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/15 "2009-01-27T23:34:10Z")
He wrote the front piece for a Disney movie. I don’t think you’re _allowed_ to call your music rock and roll after that. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/16 "2009-01-27T23:34:13Z")
As I mentioned in the U2 thread, this guy obviously listens to Billy Joel a heckavu lot more than most of Joel’s fans. Methinks he protesteth too much. The stuff on River of Dreams, is in my opinion , Joel at his best. And even the author admits he likes the song, An Innocent Man. Some people take their pose too seriously, and the author is one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/17 "2009-01-27T23:55:41Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > As I mentioned in the U2 thread, this guy obviously listens to Billy Joel a heckavu lot more than most of Joel’s fans. Methinks he protesteth too much. Like I said earlier, if you live here it’s impossible not to have heard the songs he writes about. I’ve never bought a Billy Joel CD, I’ve never put one of his CDs or songs on at someone else’s house. (In full disclosure I did like Downeaster Alexa as a kid.) And yet I’ve heard every song listed in that article with the possible exception of She’s Always a Woman. _It is unavoidable._ Buying the box set was excessive and he could’ve proved his point without it, but there you go. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/18 "2009-01-28T00:02:38Z")
Geez, I thought I was a curmudgeon when it comes to rock music, but I’ve got nothing on that guy. I’m no fan of BJ, but he’s not that bad. I don’t get the hate, and I hate more stuff than that Mikey kid. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/19 "2009-01-28T00:45:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Why is that? In any case I saw plenty of contempt for Joel in that article but little for his fans. Read it again. It’s there, barely disguised. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282/20 "2009-01-28T00:49:35Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Read it again. It’s there, barely disguised. I’ve read it three times. Other than the part about the blogger, he’s talking about the musician. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-who-hated-billy-joel/483282.md?page=2)