# The man with the swastika tattoo **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 23, 2014, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769 "2014-04-23T14:30:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/101 "2014-04-24T03:17:59Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > And you’ll have even less problem judging him for it. 'Cause that’s what you do. Yes, I do. You seem to think this is some sort of gotcha, but I judge people for their attitudes and their messages all the time. I’d ask him what the deal is, and judge accordingly. You can’t actually insult me by suggesting that I judge people by their actions and the things they say when I’m right here telling you that I judge people by their actions and the things they say. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/102 "2014-04-24T03:23:22Z")
(Damn time limit!) Seriously, if I see someone with a freaking _swastika_ tattoo, you better believe I’m gonna think he’s probably a white-supremacist. If that makes me “intolerant” or “judgmental”, then I really don’t give a fuck. You know the whole thing about being so open-minded your brain falls out? I think it applies in situations like this. And I say just ask the guy about it. As in, “hey, what’s up with the tattoo?” You don’t have to sound confrontational. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/103 "2014-04-24T03:29:04Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Yes, I do. You seem to think this is some sort of gotcha, but I judge people for their attitudes and their messages all the time. I’d ask him what the deal is, and judge accordingly. > > You can’t actually insult me by suggesting that I judge people by their actions and the things they say when I’m right here telling you that I judge people by their actions and the things they say. What actions are you judging people by? Getting a tattoo? Fire up the torches and pitch forks. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/104 "2014-04-24T03:34:34Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Tattooes are removable (with difficulty) right? If it was a youthful indiscretion wouldn’t he try to get it removed? > [@jsgoddess](#): > > If he’s so sanguine about it, he won’t have a problem being judged for it. Who said he had a problem being judged about it? Also, who said he was ‘sanguine\*’ about it? But no, he probably doesn’t have an issue being judged about it. If it doesn’t hold any meaning to him AND he didn’t like being judged for it he probably would get it covered up. That’s basically the premise of the show Tattoo Nightmares. People who want to get rid of tattoos that no longer hold meanings for them but they are also sick of being judged for. \*I’d guess he’s ‘indifferent’. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/105 "2014-04-24T03:45:20Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > And you’ll have even less problem judging him for it. 'Cause that’s what you do. I guess I’m missing what your argument is. Are you saying you have no problem with Nazi supporters? Do you feel you have no right to judge someone for anything they do or say? Or is it specifically Nazis that are OK? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/106 "2014-04-24T03:47:52Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > What actions are you judging people by? Getting a tattoo? Fire up the torches and pitch forks. This is descending into idiocy. You seriously see no difference between a random tattoo and a swastika? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/107 "2014-04-24T03:49:55Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Who said he had a problem being judged about it? There appear to be people in this thread who have a problem with him being judged for it. You and I agree that this is not likely to be a concern for swastika man. You keep saying things like “If you don’t like it, that’s your problem, not his.” I don’t disagree. It’s up to the OP to decide what he wants to do, if anything. It’s up to all of us to decide what we want to do in similar situations. Swastika man can choose what message he wants to send and then deal with whatever flak he gets for it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/108 "2014-04-24T03:51:12Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > What actions are you judging people by? Getting a tattoo? Fire up the torches and pitch forks. I would ask him what was up with the tattoo and judge him by his response. I’ve asked you a few questions in this thread and judged you by your responses, too. No tattoo required! It’s like magic. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/109 "2014-04-24T03:56:44Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I would ask him what was up with the tattoo and judge him by his response. > > I’ve asked you a few questions in this thread and judged you by your responses, too. No tattoo required! It’s like magic. You have a problem with people who advocate genocide, and now you’re saying “just ask him what’s up?” Win. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/110 "2014-04-24T03:57:46Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > What actions are you judging people by? Getting a tattoo? Getting a _swastika_ tattoo? Uh, yeah. I watch some of those tattoo competition shows sometimes, because I find the art kind of fascinating. But although maybe I have missed that one, so far I don’t think I’ve seen an episode where the judges announced “today your challenge is to create a swastika tattoo!” Seriously dude, this is a fail even if you were trying to play some sort of game. And if you’re not… ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/111 "2014-04-24T04:00:33Z")
Some really tough & fearless females in this thread. I am impressed. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/112 "2014-04-24T04:08:34Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > You have a problem with people who advocate genocide, and now you’re saying “just ask him what’s up?” > > Win. “Now” I’m saying it? I said it in my first post. I’ve said it some ridiculous number of times since. Ask him about the tattoo. Judge him by his reply. I’m not okay with genocide, or with standing by while someone may be advertising for it. So ask what he means by it and judge him by his reply. Potential (likely) pro-Nazi tattoos are not something I will ignore, so I would ask what he means by it and judge him by his reply. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/113 "2014-04-24T04:14:24Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > There appear to be people in this thread who have a problem with him being judged for it. You and I agree that this is not likely to be a concern for swastika man. Got it, I assume that it wasn’t directed at me. My assumption is that it’s an old tattoo and that it holds no meaning for him anymore. My main reasons for suggesting the OP not ask him are A)that it does mean something to him, in which case, what good could become of that or B)you’re just _another_ person asking about his stupid tattoo. [/quote] You keep saying things like “If you don’t like it, that’s your problem, not his.” I don’t disagree. It’s up to the OP to decide what he wants to do, if anything. It’s up to all of us to decide what we want to do in similar situations. Swastika man can choose what message he wants to send and then deal with whatever flak he gets for it. [/QUOTE] True. I’m a big believer that you don’t have the right to not be offended, but with that, means if you say or do something stupid, people can offend you for it. So, you can tattoo a swastika on your forehead if you want, but assume people are going to tell you how they feel about it on a regular basis. That reminds me of something that happened in my store a few years ago. A man was yelling at a Muslim lady telling her that if she’s in America she should have to dress like she’s in America. I asked him to leave the store and to make a long story short, I realized later that the rights in our country that allow her to wear whatever she wants also allow him to tell her that he doesn’t think she should be allowed to wear whatever she wants. To be clear, he can’t do anything about it, but he can certainly say what’s on his mind (with some exceptions, but legally he wasn’t doing anything wrong). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/114 "2014-04-24T04:28:45Z")
True, although you did have the right to ask him to leave your store, since it’s private property. (Since he was basically harassing other customers.) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/115 "2014-04-24T04:46:52Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > True, although you did have the right to ask him to leave your store, since it’s private property. (Since he was basically harassing other customers.) Right, I was regretting that. I’ve kicked out plenty of people over the years, and he won’t be the last. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/116 "2014-04-24T04:54:38Z")
It’s most likely that when he had it done he believed in some version of Nazism. But you should judge him on the now, not on the then. As things stand right now a) Its an obviously old, small, and normally hidden tattoo b) He treats people well c) Aside from the tattoo, there’s nothing that indicates he’s racist When he had it done, it could have been that he was in some sort of nazi / skinhead group (most likely), it could be that he was just going for shock value, and it’s also not totally out of the question that he was going for the “good luck” symbolism but screwed up (even if it is unlikely) As to not getting it removed - as others have said, there could be all sorts of reasons for this - from it not being intended to be offensive when he got it, to it being a reminder of the stupidity of youth, to it commemorating something that he does care about to … well almost anything. There’s nothing wrong with casually asking about it - but without a whole lot more evidence I would n’t be ready to judge him on it just yet. ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/117 "2014-04-24T08:45:33Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Why is ‘gets along with South Asians’ incompatible with being a racist? Maybe because it is so idiotic? > [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > There were quite a number of South Asians in the 1930s and 1940s who got along very well with the Nazis and Japanese. South Asians themselves can be extremely racist (the Hindu caste system is essentially a form of proto-racism, inasmuch as higher and lower castes are to some extent racially distinct). And it’s entirely possible to, say, have animus towards Black people and get along well with South Asians, and vice versa. Is there no limit to your racist ignorance? Over 2.5 million Indians fought on the side of the Allied forces in WW2. Remember that “South Asia” did not start the war and had nothing to do with the events leading up to it. And yet millions fought on the side of the US and Britain. Even more glaringly, India contributed enormous resources to the war effort, apart from the manpower. The looting of Indian resources to support the war effort was so colossal it caused a famine in Bengal which claimed millions of lives. And yet you say “There were quite a number of South Asians in the 1930s and 1940s who got along very well with the Nazis and Japanese.” But there’s a grain of truth in that claim; some Indians - notably SC Bose - did align with the Axis powers, but they were only disgusted with Britain’s open looting of Indian resources and forcible drafting of manpower to fight a war we had no business fighting. But they were merely sidenotes in the conflict, as a casual reading of war history will tell you. Hitler may have been one evil motherfucker, but he did whip Britain’s ass and lay to rest her imperialistic thirst once and for all, and for that the world must be eternally grateful. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/118 "2014-04-24T11:36:15Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Tattooes are removable (with difficulty) right? If it was a youthful indiscretion wouldn’t he try to get it removed? Rather than “remove”, most people just get another piece covering up the offending tattoo. Eight balls (mostly black ink) are quick and easy covers. The NAZI fuck this thread is discussing hasn’t bothered. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/119 "2014-04-24T16:13:43Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I don’t have to tolerate the admiration of genocide. > > I don’t have to be okay with any and all speech. > > I get to speak in opposition to certain viewpoints. > > I have never claimed to be without judgment. I try not to judge people for things they have no control over, for accidents of birth, for choices that harm no one, or for things that have nothing to do with me. > > Genocide, shockingly enough, does not fit any of these categories. I rarely do this, but “Me too”, applause, +1 There’s a big difference between saying “Don’t be judgmental to that guy who has the pierced nose” and “Don’t be judgmental to that guy who supports one of biggest pro-genocide philosophies in history”. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769/120 "2014-04-24T16:19:08Z")
Personally next time I run into him at the gyme I’d get a conversation going with him in view of a security camera and then roundly fisticuffs him. That way everyone will be able to watch the video and see what a hero I am. Maybe the video would even make the news and then I’d probably get a medal from the mayor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-man-with-the-swastika-tattoo/686769.md?page=7)