# The Manchurian Candidate (1962) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 13, 2011, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527 "2011-10-13T13:56:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527/21 "2011-10-14T13:18:57Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > One of my all-time favorite movies, though I wish a better actor was cast in Sinatra’s role – maybe Robert Mitchum or Burt Lancaster.. I was thinking the same thing throughout: “Hmm, Tracy and Stewart were too old–Holden might have been good . . .” Sinatra wasn’t _terrible_, but he was one of the weaker links. Thank goodness he didn’t have his way and have Lucille Ball cast in the Angela Lansbury role! I Love Lucy, but she was no great shakes as a dramatic actress. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527/22 "2011-10-14T18:20:49Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Yeah, the script was so deftly written and detailed that there’s no way her creepy stalkery character is supposed to be anything but a red flag of some sort, even if a false one. > > The killings of his wife and her father really were jaw-dropping, I did not see that coming–though of course I should have. Though really, if he was programmed to kill his father-in-law, wouldn’t the “above and beyond” killing of his wife be out of his brainwashed ability? Unless Mummy told him to do _that_, too. It’s been a while since I’ve seen it, but I’m pretty sure his handlers - maybe when he was in the “hospital” - instructed him to kill any witnesses that might finger him. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527/23 "2011-10-14T18:45:29Z")
Another convention that I appreciate it flouting is the audience’s need to identify with the character in order to support him. Raymond Shaw despairs of his lack of likability (Lawrence Harvey was well-cast for this: in everything from _Room at the Top_ to _WUSA_, he was never someone you could warm up to; except perhaps in appreciation of his striptease-Hamlet in _The Magic Christian_). But at the end of the movie when Marco is reading his Medal of Honor citation, we agree that he suffered and performed heroically. The most likable character, by miles and miles, is of course Khigh Dheigh’s brain-washer. Even though he’s the one who did that terrible thing to Raymond Shaw, and we know from the gardening club what vicious thugs he’d have to whom he’d have to answer, we still wish him well. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527/24 "2013-10-07T05:44:04Z")
One thing, in the original, that irritates me no end is that when Marco is de-programming Shaw, he says something to the effect of “you’re free”. Of course, Harvey cannot act as somebody who is free, but, I had hoped for a better ending for somebody who was ‘free’. And, of course, Sinatra sucked. Otherwise, fantastic movie. I liked the remake at least as well as the original. Totally different vibes, tho. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527/25 "2013-10-07T17:12:06Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > (there is a surprising amount of humor) My favorite was when the Senator kept spouting crazy numbers of Commie infiltrators and his wife tells him to pick one number and stay with it. The Senator sees a bottle of Heinz ketchup on the table. . . “There are exactly 57 card-carrying members of the Communist Party in the Department of Defense at this time!” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527/26 "2013-10-07T18:09:56Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > And, of course, Sinatra sucked. I’m not seeing it. I mean, Marco gets roped into doing a job he’s not cut out for, and in his spare time finds himself caught up in events without really knowing what’s going on; aside from doing fine in the fight scene, and playing “drunk” convincingly, he’s pretty much just called on to portray a tense guy who fumbles around a bit but ultimately keeps it together in his sweaty but clear-eyed way. You could make the case that other actors would’ve done better, but near as I can tell he did okay. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527/27 "2013-10-07T18:23:41Z")
I know Angela Lansbury was young but for those of you (Eve, Roderick) that said she was the daughter - she was the wife of the Senator. ---
**Author:** ![johnspartan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@johnspartan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnspartan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527/28 "2013-10-07T19:16:54Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Saw it with my future wife when I was a college freshman. Made quite an impression on me. Hadn’t seen many movies quite like this. Was she wearing a queen of diamonds costume? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527/29 "2013-10-07T19:26:30Z")
> [@TV\_time](#): > > And the hint of an incestuous relationship just out of sight was so taboo. I think the age similarities of Landsbury and Harvey actually played to that well. It was not merely a hint in the book. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527/30 "2013-10-07T19:31:44Z")
**Eve**! Good to see you! ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527/31 "2013-10-07T19:44:52Z")
Well, 103 weeks ago at least, although I doubt she’s changed much in the interim. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527/32 "2013-10-07T19:55:55Z")
Zombie :smack: 's ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527/33 "2013-10-07T20:16:28Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > My favorite was when the Senator kept spouting crazy numbers of Commie infiltrators and his wife tells him to pick one number and stay with it. The Senator sees a bottle of Heinz ketchup on the table. . . > > “There are exactly 57 card-carrying members of the Communist Party in the Department of Defense at this time!” Yes, specificity is what sells a Big Lie. (A lesson not lost on today’s pols.) ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527/34 "2013-10-07T21:23:46Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I know Angela Lansbury was young but for those of you (Eve, Roderick) that said she was the daughter - she was the wife of the Senator. I think you’re misunderstanding what people have said. (OK, spoilers for a 50+ year old film) [SPOILER]Lawrence Harvey’s character (possibly incidentally) killed his own wife, who was the daughter of a senator who was a rival to his mother and step-father (who was also a senator). He also killed that senator (the father of his wife). He did this with a pistol in that senator’s house. Then later he killed his mother, who was the wife of a senator who was going to be the puppet president, and also killed that senator (his step-father). So body count is four: his wife, his father-in law, his mother and his step-father. Oh, and himself for five.[/SPOILER] Roddy ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527/35 "2013-10-07T21:27:45Z")
Got it. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527/36 "2013-10-08T15:46:43Z")
One of the all-time great movies. I just got the Criterion Collection Blu-Ray of _Seconds_, the third part of Frankenheimer’s “Paranoia Trilogy” - also quite good, though not up to the level of _The Manchurian Candidate_. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527/37 "2013-10-08T15:51:04Z")
I’ve heard that this film, and Sinatra, is what is alluded to in the Godfather. How the ‘singer’ got a role in this important movie to turn around his career. Anyone else heard that or know anything about it? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527/38 "2013-10-08T16:01:45Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I’ve heard that this film, and Sinatra, is what is alluded to in the Godfather. How the ‘singer’ got a role in this important movie to turn around his career. > > Anyone else heard that or know anything about it? No, that was earlier, with Sinatra and\* From Here to Eternity\*, for which he won an Oscar for Best Supporting Actor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-manchurian-candidate-1962/599527.md?page=1)