# The many benefits of keeping Muslims out of Europe **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 24, 2014, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068 "2014-02-24T05:32:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/21 "2014-02-24T15:25:28Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > To the Neanderthals, what were the many benefits of keeping Homo sapiens out of Europe? How’s that “melting pot” working out for you, Neanderthals? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/22 "2014-02-24T15:45:58Z")
> [@IMfez](#): > > It seems there is quite a cultural clash going on with Muslims & Europe. Is there a legitimate reason Europeans are concerned about Muslims immigrating in, or becoming part of the EU in the case of Turkey? Or this this mostly just driven by a gut-level fear of outsiders? Denmark was extremely welcoming to Muslim immigrants once. In recent years, there immigration laws have gotten much stricter. The immediate cause of this was the eruption over a set of cartoons, but that was really just the moment when things crystalized in the minds of the Danish public. They had already been aware that the Muslim immigrant population was not integrating well, that crime rates in that population were sky-high, that many of them were on welfare, and so forth. Hence the changes in law, but those only restrict new immigration. Law-abiding immigrants are allowed to stay. Netherlands had a similar story. The flash point there was the murder of filmmaker Theo Van Gogh in 2004, but it made the Dutch people pay attention to simmering issues with immigration, integration, abuse of women, and so forth. Immigration laws soon changed there. And in other European countries. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/23 "2014-02-24T16:08:31Z")
Frankly, it all went downhill after the British Parliament passed the 1830 Catholic Relief Act. Bloody tolerating the Papists. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/24 "2014-02-24T17:45:09Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > How’s that “melting pot” working out for you, Neanderthals? Its what they get for kicking the Denisovans out of Europe. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/25 "2014-02-24T17:57:10Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Not really, the Jews are the ones you need to watch out for. They’re vastly craftier and better at manipulating the goyim. But, all Muslims are crypto-Jews – what, you didn’t know that? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/26 "2014-02-24T17:58:16Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > How’s that “melting pot” working out for you, Neanderthals? [Seems to have worked, actually.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/29/modern-human-dna-neanderthal_n_4689506.html) ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/27 "2014-02-24T19:17:05Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Denmark was extremely welcoming to Muslim immigrants once. When? ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/28 "2014-02-24T19:24:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But, all Muslims are crypto-Jews – what, you didn’t know that? “Nayim, from the halfway line”… ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/29 "2014-02-24T19:49:17Z")
Perhaps the EU can start a “Christendom for the Christians!” marketing campaign? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/30 "2014-02-24T20:27:51Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Perhaps the EU can start a “Christendom for the Christians!” marketing campaign? Perhaps the Native Americans could start an ‘America for the Native Americans’ marketing campaign? Oh wait, it’s a little late for that, isn’t it? I sense the presence of irony in this thread somewhere, although I’m not quite sure where. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/31 "2014-02-24T20:35:57Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > When? Immigration laws were fairly relaxed in the late 90’s and early 00’s before the eruption of the ‘cartoon crisis’. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/32 "2014-02-24T20:39:48Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Immigration laws were fairly relaxed in the late 90’s and early 00’s before the eruption of the ‘cartoon crisis’. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/33 "2014-02-24T21:02:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’m just wondering: has there ever been any terrorist act by the people commonly called “Gypsies”? That Cher song comes close, but they’re only tangentially to blame for that… ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/34 "2014-02-24T21:05:18Z")
> [@bump](#): > > AI have a suspicion that the situation is different than in the US and the assimilation process isn’t as complete, due to a differing conception of what it is to be “French”, or “British” or “German” or “Dutch”. It’s tied up with ethnicity in Europe, while in the US, it’s not. Anyone but the most benighted and ignorant hillbilly will admit that Americans come in all stripes and colors, so it’s not nearly so much of a stretch to think that these newcomers can become Americans too. But if you’re from an ethnic group/nationality that’s been more or less defined for 800 years, it’s probably hard to think of them as anything but Algerians, even if they’ve lived in France for 100 years. I mean, they may be citizens of the Republique, but they’re not “French”. I’ve met a fair number of second and third generation immigrants in the UK, and I wouldn’t say they’re any less assimilated then, say, second generation US Hispanic immigrants. I think its pretty universal that people who are born in a country try to fit in. To the extent that European Muslims seem to stand out, I think its just because many of them are relatively recent arrivals. Really, I don’t think there’s any huge mystery to be solved here. Pretty much every country scapegoats their immigrants. The US worries about Hispanics (and before that, asians, and before that, Irish and Italians). European countries are basically just doing the same thing. And I suspect, at the end of the day, they will have about as much success as the US xenophobes had at keeping out the Irish, and the grandchildren of today’s persecuted Muslims immigrant will happily join their fellow Christian countrymen in complaining the next group of immigrants is some unique threat that will destroy France/Italy/wherever, and should be kept out. So the cycle continues. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/35 "2014-02-24T21:09:38Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Cite? [For starters](http://www.aina.org/news/20080718105208.htm), Denmark used to give welfare to immigrants as soon as they arrived. An immigrant could get permanent citizenship after living there for just three years. It was easy for immigrants to bring their family members into the country. All of these laws have changed in the past few years. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/36 "2014-02-24T21:10:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Seems to have worked, actually.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/29/modern-human-dna-neanderthal_n_4689506.html) Actually, you have a very strange idea about what “works”. Though I was just joking, I doubt many Neanderthals would take comfort in existing as 20% of another species’ DNA. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/37 "2014-02-24T21:21:43Z")
But alot of Muslim women are attractive and date non Muslims. > **[First Turkish Woman Strips for German Playboy](https://www.newser.com/story/116863/sila-sahin-becomes-first-turkish-woman-to-strip-for-german-playboy.html)** > > Muslim actress Sila Sahin says she 'feels like Che Guevera' > **[British Muslims are the 'most patriotic and best integrated' in Europe](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1235502/British-Muslims-patriotic-best-integrated-Europe.html)** > > Seventy-eight per cent of UK Muslims identified themselves as British, compared with 49 per cent who consider themselves French and 23 per cent who feel German. And that’s from the most Muslim hating newspaper in the UK. For selfish reasons, keep them in! On a side note, it really does help if you talk to some of these Muslim immigrants, you’ll be surprised to find out many of them hate Islamists _much more than you do_, especially if you meet Algerian immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/38 "2014-02-24T22:46:24Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > [For starters](http://www.aina.org/news/20080718105208.htm), Denmark used to give welfare to immigrants as soon as they arrived. An immigrant could get permanent citizenship after living there for just three years. It was easy for immigrants to bring their family members into the country. All of these laws have changed in the past few years. I thought most of those laws pre-dated the cartoon crisis. Of course I could be wrong. … Having said that, that article you linked to is, uh, a little bit strange. For one thing: > [@](#): > > You will not be allowed to build a mosque in Copenhagen. What? No. In fact, a big-ass Copenhagen mosque is being built just around the corner from where I live. It’ll open its doors in May. ---
**Author:** ![Consensus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@Consensus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Consensus)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/39 "2014-02-26T12:03:31Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Actually, you have a very strange idea about what “works”. Though I was just joking, I doubt many Neanderthals would take comfort in existing as 20% of another species’ DNA. Given the timescale, i think they would. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068/40 "2014-02-26T14:00:03Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > This is an interesting dynamic. I’ve noticed at the grocery store mothers will be covered head to toe, while their teenaged daughters (I assume duaghters) are wearing American clothes, or if not that, hijabs. (With the face exposed.) > > I’ve often wondered what those conversations must be like when the teenaged girl asks her parents if she can wear western style clothing. > > People often ask “Where are the moderate Muslims?” Well, there they are, right there under your nose. I’ve seen family groups here in the Medical Center. The older (?) lady being pushed in the wheelchair wears a veil & traditional garments covering her completely. The middle-aged lady in the group wears modest Western garments & hijab. The young lady wears designer jeans & a t-shirt that says “Saudi Arabia.” Then there are the pink-cheeked, cornfed girls in hijab. And the ebony black ones. But we’re a growing culture over here. Aren’t most Muslims in Europe descended from former colonial countries? When All Roads Led to Rome, the Romans couldn’t really blame folks from using them to see the big city. And some were brought as guest workers–when the locals couldn’t be bothered to soil their lily white fingers with labor. Not that long ago, some folks with similar genotypes to mine set off bombs in London. I highly disapprove & would not want to be judged by their actions… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-many-benefits-of-keeping-muslims-out-of-europe/682068.md?page=3)