# The Margaret Dumont Appreciation Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 13, 2001, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703 "2001-06-13T18:43:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2001, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/21 "2001-06-15T13:24:39Z")
Groucho was gracious enough to acknowledge Margaret Dumont during his acceptance of the honorary Academy Awarded presented to him in the early 1970s. IIRC he thanked the Academy and said that he wished his brothers were there to accept it with him. He then added that he wished that “Margaret Dumont was here, too.” “Monobosom” - that’s rich. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2001, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/22 "2001-06-15T13:31:19Z")
“And no one has mentioned that Dumont was bald.” —Yeah, yeah, this was another goodie Groucho used to throw out at interviews. Not that I care if she was bald or not, but it’s another example of what a mean-spirited bastard Groucho was. He REPEATEDLY said in interviews and to biographers that Margaret Dumont was clueless and didn’t know what was going on. This is the same guy who mistreated his wives, daughters and other female costars, so I think he had a wee bit of a problem . . . Now. Ginger Rogers. Of COURSE Fred was a better dancer, but people did indeed go to see musicals she made without him: remember “42nd Street,” “Gold Diggers of 1933,” “In Person,” “Roxie Hart” . . . OK, no one went to see “Lady in the Dark,” because it sucked, but . . . I may also add that Ginge’ won an Oscar for ACTING, which Fred never did. ---
**Author:** ![aseymayo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@aseymayo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aseymayo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2001, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/23 "2001-06-15T22:25:32Z")
> [@](#): > > She didn’t sing better than Fred… Didn’t sing better than Fred?!? Didn’t sing better than Fred?!? Oh, yeah? _Quickly shuffling through record collection. Now where’s that album of “Kitty Foyle Sings the Blues”? I know it was here somewhere. What’s this? “Duets - Hermione Gingold and Bob Dylan”?? No, that’s not it. What’s this double album? “Fred Astaire’s Greatest Hi…” Ooops, forgot I owned that._ Okay, have it your way - but I’m right she had better legs! And **Uke** , Peter Lorre was a _much_ better dancer than Karloff! Karloff couldn’t pirouette to save his life. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2001, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/24 "2001-06-15T22:34:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aseymayo \* > \*\* And Uke, Peter Lorre was a _much_ better dancer than Karloff! Karloff couldn’t pirouette to save his life. \*\* This is beyond dispute. However, the tense rivalry between Joseph Cotton and Charles Boyer is the stuff of Hollywood legend !!! Stories abound recounting the filming of **Gaslight** , and the frenzied Charleston contests the men would get into, whilst off in her chair sat Ingrid Bergman, cool and day-bone-aye as always. Hey, I had to go there 😃 😃 > [@](#): > > _Originally Posted by **Eve** _ :: She was a professional and a great, under-rated talent, and the Queen of all us Incipient Appalled Dowagers. > > —[glaring haughtily through my lorgnette at Groucho] \<------cackling here. Ahhh, **Eve**. First of all, please dear, what IS a **lorgnette**??? Second of all, how would I look in one? Third of all? That is without DOUBT the best damned new Sig Line of the week. I can see it now… > [@](#): > > … **Eve** - Queen of Incipient Appalled Dowagers You are the best. When’s that book party??? I’ll bake for it ! Cartooniverse, who misses the rem jet layer that made **“M”** glow in such a surreal way. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2001, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/25 "2001-06-15T22:54:04Z")
Somehow this thread seems to have become a Marx Brothers routine. Astaire and Rogers going one direction, Lorre and Karloff going yet another. Groucho, Zeppo (or Gummo), Chico and Harpo in and out of it all and of course and the great lady at the center. It’s the perfect salute to Margaret Dumont. I think the perfect memory of the lady is from perhaps the best comedic scene in film history. The “stateroom” scene from Night at the Opera ends with the four brothers at Dumont’s feet. TV ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2001, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/26 "2001-06-15T23:44:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cartooniverse \* > [BFirst of all, please dear, what IS a lorgnette??? \*\* Also known as “glasses on a stick.” 😃 And Margaret Dumont kicks ass. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![DAVEW0071](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19b73/32.png) [@DAVEW0071](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAVEW0071)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2001, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/27 "2001-06-16T00:38:31Z")
> [@](#): > > I think the perfect memory of the lady is from perhaps the best comedic scene in film history. The “stateroom” scene from Night at the Opera ends with the four brothers at Dumont’s feet. Well, you’re 3/4 correct. Actually, Zeppo’s swan song was _Duck Soup_. It was Allan Jones who played the juvenile in _Opera_. Opposite Kitty Carlisle. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2001, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/28 "2001-06-16T02:22:12Z")
“Your eyes, your eyes, they shine like the pants of a blue serge suit. That’s not a reflection on you, it’s on the pants.” ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2001, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/29 "2001-06-18T13:41:59Z")
“Your eyes, your eyes, they shine like the pants of a blue serge suit. That’s not a reflection on you, it’s on the pants.” —Oh, Professor FIREfly! ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2001, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/30 "2001-06-18T13:52:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*—Oh, Professor FIREfly! \*\* That would be PRESIDENT Firefly, as in Rufus T. Firefly, President of Freedonia (_Duck Soup,_ 1933). PROFESSOR would be Professor Quincey Adams Wagstaff (_Horse Feathers,_ 1932). ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2001, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/31 "2001-06-18T13:58:48Z")
. . . And why aren’t you in the bathroom holding Lupe Velez’s head under? . . . ---
**Author:** ![PieCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d6d6ee/32.png) [@PieCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PieCatLady)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/32 "2015-02-21T17:01:53Z")
Margaret Dumont was so necessary in the Marx Brothers films, the perfect foil for Groucho, enabling his humor with her stalwart persona. He wouldn’t have been so funny without her! When I was a young viewer, I thought she was beautiful - and only a little bit silly, with her exaggerated poise and manners. I still think so. The other fans must be watching her movies - surely there are many many admirers out there. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/33 "2015-02-21T17:46:56Z")
A 13 1/2 year old zombie? Started by **Eve**? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/34 "2015-02-21T17:56:59Z")
> [@PieCatLady](#): > > Margaret Dumont was so necessary in the Marx Brothers films, the perfect foil for Groucho, enabling his humor with her stalwart persona. He wouldn’t have been so funny without her! When I was a young viewer, I thought she was beautiful - and only a little bit silly, with her exaggerated poise and manners. I still think so. The other fans must be watching her movies - surely there are many many admirers out there. I think she was smart, I think she was in on the joke, and I have no doubt that Groucho was a Sonofabitch. But… I think that this was put forth as PR for the sake of the business of entertaining and making money from the public. Lets imagine its the 1930s and people are poor and desperate, in need of some form of escape. They still read/buy papers (news & jobs) and they may go to movies. Lets say you create a comedy routine based on poorer people taking on and getting over on the rich and entitled class. Its a popular subject given the audience is poor… so much so that even scenes of people eating a full plate of food are immensely popular. The Marx Brothers know and do their part and Margaret Dumont knows and does hers (you’d HAVE to in order to turn in a quality performance). The effect is magic, and people buy tickets… but because it Is magic, do you tell the public the secret behind the trick? No Way! That would be like saying, “Hi! We’re the smart people in the room, we’re better than you in the audience and we’ve been So Happy to take your money. Suckers…!” If you alienate your base by making them the idiots of the play, they won’t buy tickets. But… if as a publicity and business matter you agree from the start to say that talented straight woman Margaret Dumont actually “doesn’t get it” then you maintain the suspension of disbelief and you make people feel smarter than her, laugh, and want to go back to buy tickets to see the show again and again. Yes, there were smart people who read the papers, but the majority of the circulation wasn’t geared towards them. Interviews and newspaper articles were geared towards generating and maintaining both ticket sales and newspaper sales back then. Being straight person probably was (and probably is) a Truly Sucky Thankless Job, and there probably aren’t enough zeroes on the check to cover the crap they go through both on and off set. Do I think that Margaret Dumont was a genius who held up her end of comedy magic? Of Course, and an under appreciated one at that. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/35 "2015-02-21T18:39:48Z")
I’ll move this over to Cafe Society, but please note that this thread is from 2001, so many of the posters aren’t around to comment back if you quote them. I’ve put a mod note in the OP to let people know it’s from 2001. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/36 "2015-02-21T19:29:27Z")
People only know her from the movies, but she was with the Brothers starting on Broadway, in _The Cocoanuts_ 1925 (and its 1927 revival) and _Animal Crackers_. Those were her first movie roles as well (other than non-credited silents and shorts). She spent a full decade working with them. This [online article](http://chiseler.org/post/27840480826/it-simply-isnt-done-margaret-dumont) talks about her not getting the jokes. Apparently Maureen O’Sullivan said it as well as Groucho, but the writer has well-founded doubts about how you could read the script of _A Day at the Races_ and believe it was a serious drama. More interesting are the pictures he dug up of a younger and prettier Dumont. She was eight years older than Groucho and Hollywood had no place for older women to look anything other than matronly. She was the same age in _Duck Soup_ as Mariska Hargitay, Elle Macpherson, Vanessa Williams, and Helen Hunt are today. She had also been married to a true high society figure and never really recovered from his death or her need to go back to show business for money. Show business has scores of people who lead delusional lives offscreen, and Dumont may well have been one of them. Still, the Brothers were consummate professionals and nobody else lasted longer with them. That should say something right there. They wouldn’t have put with a clueless stooge for a decade. Neither would W. C. Fields or the other top comics who wanted her. Groucho was cruel and bitter, but he also realized he had created a persona that made people want to hear insults from him, all the time. He was happy to oblige. I don’t think we’ll ever know more. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/37 "2015-02-22T01:13:57Z")
[Young Margaret, radiantly beautiful.](http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z256/hilbyf/margaret-dumont_zps0cdc1b8a.png) ---
**Author:** ![HyacinthBucket](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hyacinthbucket/32/3063_2.png) [@HyacinthBucket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HyacinthBucket)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/38 "2015-02-22T16:30:22Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > … She was a professional and a great, under-rated talent, and **the Queen of all us Incipient Appalled Dowagers.** > > —[glaring haughtily through my lorgnette at Groucho] > \* > [**Mod Note** Please note this thread is from 2001]\* Yes, yes, but did she have a white slimline telephone with last number redial? Or a set of Royal Doulton with hand-painted periwinkles? Hyacinth Bucket The CURRENT Queen of all Incipient Appalled Dowagers ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/39 "2015-02-22T16:35:05Z")
Cixi. Now there was a dowager. When she got apalled, heads really rolled ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703/40 "2015-02-22T16:35:32Z")
> [@Rocketeer](#): > > [Young Margaret, radiantly beautiful.](http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z256/hilbyf/margaret-dumont_zps0cdc1b8a.png) Who else is thinking “Christina Ricci!”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-margaret-dumont-appreciation-thread/68703.md?page=3)