# The mark of Cain **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 13, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607 "2019-08-13T15:56:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dana\_Scully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@Dana\_Scully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dana_Scully)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/1 "2019-08-13T15:56:00Z")
Has anyone ever figured out what this was? I know the LDS church taught for years that being black was the mark of Cain and restricted membership of anyone who could be considered black from any kind of priesthood. In 1978, they decided the time was right to end that restriction. (Honestly this ISN’T a religious argument; I’m simply citing one hypothesis.) Other ideas are that it was literally some kind of physical mark place on him that everyone would recognize (and I don’t remember if the Bible says it would be placed on his descendants too). I’ve always wondered about this so I’m hoping that a discussion of this will ensue that could enlighten me. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/2 "2019-08-13T16:17:58Z")
[Here’s the story](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+4&version=NIV) and it doesn’t say anything about what the mark was. The reference to Cain’s descendants is in verses 23-24, and it is kind of obscure. The purpose of the mark of Cain was to protect Cain from being killed. There’s no reference to race. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/3 "2019-08-13T16:23:47Z")
The LDS church didn’t invent that idea. According to the wikipedia article, it goes back to the 5th century, and was a common protestant belief prior to the civil war (that’s probably where Joseph Smith got inspiration for it, as he investigated many churches). The article also lists other beliefs as to what the mark was. > **[Curse and mark of Cain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_and_mark_of_Cain)** > > The curse of Cain and the mark of Cain are phrases that originated in the story of Cain and Abel in the Book of Genesis. In the stories, if someone harmed Cain, the damage would come back sevenfold. Some interpretations view this as a physical mark, whereas other interpretations see the "mark" as a sign, and not as a physical mark on Cain himself. The King James Version of the Bible reads "set a mark upon Cain." > There is no clear consensus as to what Cain's mark was. The word translated as "mark... ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/4 "2019-08-13T16:51:10Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > The LDS church didn’t invent that idea. According to the wikipedia article, it goes back to the 5th century, and was a common protestant belief prior to the civil war (that’s probably where Joseph Smith got inspiration for it, as he investigated many churches). The article also lists other beliefs as to what the mark was. > > [Curse and mark of Cain - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_and_mark_of_Cain) The claims that it was a common protestant belief are all labeled “citation needed”. They appear to be pulled out of some anonymous editor’s nether regions. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/5 "2019-08-13T17:56:51Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > The claims that it was a common protestant belief are all labeled “citation needed”. They appear to be pulled out of some anonymous editor’s nether regions. Maybe he got it from [Stampp Corbin](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-mark-of-cain_b_7028988), and maybe he pulled it out of his ass? Or maybe that was a rationale many Americans (a vast majority being protestant) used to justify slavery for 250 years. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/6 "2019-08-13T20:06:25Z")
I always conjectured it was a tattoo. Maybe I was even taught that, who knows for sure? The nun who might have taught me that likely didn’t have a citation, at the time, so where’m I gonna get one now? At any rate, it kinda fits – tattoos are forbidden by Moasaic law. People have been making them since before recorded history. How would Hebrew priests explain that? Mark of Cain. Oh, _God_ can do it, for a good reason, and _the others_, do it, for whatever reason they want to. But \*we \*don’t do it. Unless a local prehistoric Cannanite tribe practiced facial tattooing. But even then, I’m just conjecturing that the connection was made and added to the Biblical narrative. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/7 "2019-08-13T20:34:50Z")
When Richard Harris played him in the John Huston movie, he was struck by lightning on his forehead, and it left a scar: > **[Richard Harris bears the mark of the Lord in a scene from the film...](https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/richard-harris-bears-the-mark-of-the-lord-in-a-scene-from-news-photo/129731091)** > > Richard Harris bears the mark of the Lord in a scene from the film 'The Bible: In The Beginning', 1966. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/8 "2019-08-13T21:54:06Z")
Lightning. God’s tattoo needle. Now there’s a deity who doesn’t mince around. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/9 "2019-08-13T21:59:29Z")
There is nothing said in Scripture about what the mark looks like. It only specifies that those who see Cain and his mark won’t kill him. Perhaps it is something that makes people want to keep a far distance from him - but then again, he did go on to have a family. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/10 "2019-08-13T23:13:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The purpose of the mark of Cain was to protect Cain from being killed. If it was dark brown skin, God really missed the mark. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/11 "2019-08-13T23:53:22Z")
I bet it was a lightning bolt… ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/12 "2019-08-14T00:28:27Z")
Voldemort? ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/13 "2019-08-14T03:10:15Z")
> [@Dana\_Scully](#): > > I know the LDS church taught for years that being black was the mark of Cain and restricted membership of anyone who could be considered black from any kind of priesthood. Daniel Quinn argues in Ishmael that it is the exact opposite. The mark is being white. “The story is grounded in a historical context which is all the more elusive for being so specific. Abel is a “keeper of sheep” while Cain is a “tiller of the ground.” (Gen 4:2) This suggests the simplistic interpretation that the story is about a conflict between agriculturalists and pastoralists”. (Not that I agree with Quinn, but it is a compelling POV) I’m guessing the LDSer assume all the Bible folks were white, right? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/14 "2019-08-14T03:13:56Z")
It was probably understood to be some Hebrew letter. But some have argued that Cain grew horns. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/15 "2019-08-14T03:32:47Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Daniel Quinn argues in Ishmael that it is the exact opposite. The mark is being white. > > “The story is grounded in a historical context which is all the more elusive for being so specific. Abel is a “keeper of sheep” while Cain is a “tiller of the ground.” (Gen 4:2) This suggests the simplistic interpretation that the story is about a conflict between agriculturalists and pastoralists”. > > (Not that I agree with Quinn, but it is a compelling POV) It’s only compelling, IMHO, if you grant that the story is literally true (as in Cain actually existed, Abel actually existed and was murdered by Cain, and god literally interacted with Cain and gave him “the mark,” so presumably Adam, Eve, and the Garden actually existed too, and so on). Otherwise, if we are to leave it as a sort of primordial myth/legend containing no special knowledge that was not routinely available to the Israelites or other Semitic people’s circa three thousand years ago, it would require ancient Israelites to have 1) known of lighter skinned white people (that’s at least possible, there’s evidence of at least sporadic trade and contact between Mediterranean cultures and peoples as far away as Britain to the north and west), and 2) have anticipated the phenomenon we would now describe as "white privilege"and yet viewed it as applying to other people, but not themselves, even as they viewed themselves as “God’s chosen people,” his most favored nation. I don’t think that’s at all likely. ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/16 "2019-08-14T03:56:13Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Maybe he got it from [Stampp Corbin](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-mark-of-cain_b_7028988), and maybe he pulled it out of his ass? > > Or maybe that was a rationale many Americans (a vast majority being protestant) used to justify slavery for 250 years. Slavery was justified by the Curse of Ham, not the mark of Cain: “the narrative [of Ham’s transgression against his father Noah] was interpreted by some Christians, Muslims and Jews as an explanation for black skin, as well as a justification for slavery” > **[Curse of Ham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham)** > > In the Book of Genesis, the curse of Ham is described as a curse which was imposed upon Ham's son Canaan by the patriarch Noah. It occurs in the context of Noah's drunkenness and it is provoked by a shameful act that was perpetrated by Noah's son Ham, who "saw the nakedness of his father". The exact nature of Ham's transgression and the reason Noah cursed Canaan when Ham had sinned have been debated for over 2,000 years. > The story's original purpose may have been to justify the biblical subjecti... However the Curse and mark of Cain article says “The Curse of Cain was often conflated with the Curse of Ham” > **[Curse and mark of Cain | Curse of Ham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_and_mark_of_Cain#Curse_of_Ham)** > > The Curse of Cain was often conflated with the Curse of Ham. According to the Bible, Ham discovered his father Noah drunk and naked in his tent, but instead of honoring his father by covering his nakedness, he ran and told his brothers about it. Because of this, Noah cursed Ham's son, Canaan, by saying that he was to be "a servant of servants" (Genesis 9:20–27). One interpretation of this passage states that Ham married a descendant of Cain. While there is no indication in the Bible of Ham's wif... ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/17 "2019-08-14T06:00:22Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > “The story is grounded in a historical context which is all the more elusive for being so specific. Abel is a “keeper of sheep” while Cain is a “tiller of the ground.” (Gen 4:2) This suggests the simplistic interpretation that the story is about a conflict between agriculturalists and pastoralists”. I don;t see how this has anything to do with race. ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/18 "2019-08-14T09:08:59Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > It was probably understood to be some Hebrew letter. But some have argued that Cain grew horns. The word used for the “mark” in the Hebrew original is _'ot_, which also can mean “letter”. Apparently, there are quite a few details in the original story which have been lost in various translations (or even were lost before it was translated): [The Untold Story of Cain and Abel | AHRC](https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/studies-interpretation/untold-story-of-cain-and-abel.htm) ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/19 "2019-08-14T13:25:56Z")
And who were the women that Adam and Eve’s sons mated with? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607/20 "2019-08-14T13:28:02Z")
Their sisters and/or nieces. Deal with it. This thread is making me laugh out loud. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mark-of-cain/838607.md?page=2)