# "The Martian Chronicles" is either a clumsy fix-up or a brilliant satire, and I'm not sure which but maybe it's both: A very belated book report **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [April 6, 2026, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062 "2026-04-06T12:31:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/141 "2026-04-10T19:22:17Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Fantasy as a marketing genre distinct from sf is usually credited to July-Lynn and Lester Del Rey, who edited the Del Rey imprint for Ballantine Books from 1977, starting with Terry Brooks’ Tolkien pastiche _The Sword of Shannara_. Del Rey is also credited with raising the percentage of women who read the f&sf genre to more than half. And now dominating fields like paranormal romance and romantasy. What? No credit to Lin Carter for editing the Modern Adult Fantasy series that Ballantine Books ran in the early 1970s? (Ballantine gave birth to Del Rey books). He revived a lot of formerly obscure titles that Donald A. Wollheim somehow missed when he was scouting for cheap fodder for Ace books. > **[Ballantine Adult Fantasy series](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballantine_Adult_Fantasy_series)** > > The Ballantine Adult Fantasy series was an imprint of American publisher Ballantine Books. Launched in 1969 (presumably in response to the growing popularity of Tolkien's works), the series reissued a number of works of fantasy literature which were out of print or dispersed in back issues of pulp magazines (or otherwise not easily available in the United States), in cheap paperback form—including works by authors such as James Branch Cabell, Lord Dunsany, Ernest Bramah, Hope Mirrlees, and Wil En... ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/142 "2026-04-10T19:24:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There might be some vague allusions to technology, but none more detailed than “a wizard did it”. Can’t agree. Technology is referenced constantly. Agreed that quite a bit of it is of the so-advanced-it-might-as-well-be-magic sort. But it very cynically is technology (which is kind of the point of the protagonist’s rebellion - these aren’t gods at all). Indeed it explicitly points out degradation when the mightier incarnations of gods long-attuned towards godly aspects are killed, with the replacements starting at a much lower level. So the original Agni is super-powerful primarily because of tech - his super see-through-anything goggles and pure blasting wand. The replacement Agni is sneered at for merely using white phosphorus grenades. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/143 "2026-04-10T19:27:49Z")
It’s been twenty years or more since I read it, but the main thing I remember about _Lords of Light_ was how heavily it was leaning into the “sufficiently advanced technology” trope. I’d personally call it sci-fi, but it’s really a good example of how fuzzy the line between sci-fi and fantasy can be. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/144 "2026-04-10T19:30:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > but Lord of Light is definitely fantasy. There might be some vague allusions to technology, but none more detailed than “a wizard did it”. So it’s not enough for SF to have laser guns, it has to provide detailed explanations of how the laser guns work, and these explanations have to comply completely with scientific theory known as of the time of writing? I’m sorry, but that’s too narrow for me. Go down that path, and you’ll end up with the entire Science Fiction genre limited to seven novels written between 1950 and 1955. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/145 "2026-04-10T19:31:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s been twenty years or more since I read it, but the main thing I remember about _Lords of Light_ was how heavily it was leaning into the “sufficiently advanced technology” trope. I’d personally call it sci-fi, but it’s really a good example of how fuzzy the line between sci-fi and fantasy can be. Roger Zelazny, the author, has stated that he didn’t know enough technology to write a “harder” sf novel, and he was writing things like _Lord of Light_ and _Creatures of Light and Darkness_ until he could learn enough. I don’t think he ever did, or that it would have made hi writing any better. That’s not criticism – I like both those books. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/146 "2026-04-10T19:34:44Z")
There just seems to be an assumption that “Soft” SF is somehow _less_ science fiction than “Hard” SF. I don’t agree. I think the two sub-sub-genres are equally legitimate and worthwhile (and I’m saying that as someone who prefers his SF on the softer side). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/147 "2026-04-10T19:42:34Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > So it’s not enough for SF to have laser guns, it has to provide detailed explanations of how the laser guns work, and these explanations have to comply completely with scientific theory known as of the time of writing? Is there a difference, in your view, between a “laser gun” and a “lightning wand”? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/148 "2026-04-10T19:49:54Z")
[Lightning wand.](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3c/34/c6/3c34c67bfec6909379f897f830b69b80.jpg) [Laser.](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiKJjZ8xAdjZxEB3O3SHkATVE6rp9msEcXLw02VK8-9jnHsej4vCXm9zyGKfpl-EQNnjb3wE33BsTeUd1S3cRhe7CJMA5wkEZY_mDQk5jP5KCt40HwP7FOXLkd9SKGgvRHlIe4iVrvBr8tc/s1600/emirikol-the-chaotic.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/149 "2026-04-10T19:50:55Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Is there a difference, in your view, between a “laser gun” and a “lightning wand”? Hmm. The difference is cultural, mostly - laser guns are mass produced, and are therefore more common in modern or futuristic societies, while lightning wands are individually crafted, which would generally put them in preindustrial societies. Were I a writer, I’d decide to use one or the other based on what kind of people I wanted to see shooting them. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/150 "2026-04-10T20:08:53Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > What? No credit to Lin Carter for editing the Modern Adult Fantasy series that Ballantine Books ran in the early 1970s? Nope. Carter reprinted older works - the Del Reys bought brand new stuff that was more in line with modern tastes. No reprint line has ever shaped a genre that I can remember. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > … _Lord of Light_ and _Creatures of Light and Darkness_ until he could learn enough. > > I don’t think he ever did, or that it would have made hi writing any better. That’s not criticism – I like both those books. _Lord of Light_ (based on Hindu mythology) is a masterpiece. (_This Immortal_, based on Greek mythology, also was fine, especially for a first novel.) I tried rereading _Creatures of Light and Darkness_ (based on Egyptian mythology) not that long ago and found it be a total mess. And [Zelazny knew it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatures_of_Light_and_Darkness). > _Creatures of Light and Darkness_ was originally conceived and written as merely a writing exercise in perspective. He wrote it in present tense; constructed an entire chapter in poetry; and made the concluding chapter into the script of a play. He never intended it for publication… Samuel R. “Chip” Delany insisted that it be published, and so it was. But the Agnostic’s Prayer should be better known. > Insofar as I may be heard by anything, which may or may not care what I say, I ask, if it matters, that you be forgiven for anything you may have done or failed to do which requires forgiveness. > > Conversely, if not forgiveness but something else may be required to ensure any possible benefit for which you may be eligible after the destruction of your body, I ask that this, whatever it may be, be granted or withheld, as the case may be, in such a manner as to insure your receiving said benefit. > > I ask this in my capacity as your elected intermediary between yourself and that which may not be yourself, but which may have an interest in the matter of your receiving as much as it is possible for you to receive of this thing, and which may in some way be influenced by this ceremony. > > Amen. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/151 "2026-04-10T21:22:55Z")
Oh? You don’t think that the reprints of Robert E. Howard’s works, especially the Lancer Conan series, had a major effect on the course of heroic fantasy in the 1970s? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/152 "2026-04-10T22:39:35Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I tried rereading _Creatures of Light and Darkness_ (based on Egyptian mythology) not that long ago and found it be a total mess. I read that book when I was 10 years old. Warped me for life. I love it. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/153 "2026-04-10T23:23:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And your list of great authors doesn’t include Tolkien (who never had any interest in writing science fiction) Tolkien said that he enjoyed reading science fiction. And he famously made a deal with C. S. Lewis that Lewis would write a SF book about space travel while Tolkien would write one about time travel. Lewis did complete his end of the bargain by writing his Space Trilogy, but Tolkien never completed his. He started _The Lost Road_, and later reworked some of the ideas in _The Notion Club Papers_. Neither work is complete, but, with some stretching of the definition, they are arguably science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/154 "2026-04-10T23:43:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Which also includes, for instance, alternate history, which isn’t really science fiction nor fantasy (but which is also related to both). Alternate history certainly can be science fiction - Kowal’s Lady Astronaut series is about an alternate history space program, and Pavane is about the social and technological consequences of the conquest of England by Spain during the reign of Elizabeth Tudor. (of course there’s a lot of alternate histories with time machines, but that’s too easy) > [@silenus](#): > > What about _Doorways In the Sand_? Just the one I was going to mention. Aliens and a device for reversing the parity of objects - but no magic. Seemed SFish to me. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/155 "2026-04-11T00:09:10Z")
OK, that’s a reasonable distinction. But look at Agni through that lens: His weapon is not only unique, but works only for him. That’s definitely more on the fantasy end than science fiction. If it were just the tech that were special, then anyone could use the tech after Agni’s death. But it was Agni himself that was special. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/156 "2026-04-11T00:49:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If it were just the tech that were special, then anyone could use the tech after Agni’s death. But it was Agni himself that was special. As I recall Agni’s weapon is lost when he tries to use it on the man who built it - Yama, the weapon maker to the gods. Yama had built in a fail-safe and reflects the attack back on Agni. The subsequent “incarnations” of Agni couldn’t use it because it was destroyed and couldn’t replace it because Yama fled into hiding after the first failed rebellion. The “gods” do seem to have augmented themselves in various technology-as-magic ways such that they had what we could consider aspect-accurate magical super-powers. So Agni was probably pyrokinetic, Yama could kill with his gaze, Ratri could cast darkness, Mara could create illusions, Kubera could imbue inanimate objects with emotional resonance, etc. But the fact that such powers could be re-created is directly referenced by noting various lesser replacement gods that were still struggling to master their newly acquired aspects. So it was again technology-as-magic, not actual magic. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/157 "2026-04-11T02:14:33Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > You don’t think that the reprints of Robert E. Howard’s works, especially the Lancer Conan series, had a major effect on the course of heroic fantasy in the 1970s? Not is the subject is whether they created a new marketing genre. Fantasy obviously existed. Some fantasy sold millions. Both Howard and Tolkien were no longer writing, though. Lancer did not have a fantasy imprint and in fact went out of business before releasing the entire planned Conan series, which was finished by Ace. The Del Reys saw the opportunity to form a coherent and consistent supply of new fantasy that would create series and fans who wanted more product than a few dead people had produced. They were not just reprinters but marketers. Huge difference. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/158 "2026-04-11T06:15:37Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > I remember how shocked I was to learn that most of the survivors of Shackelton’s expedition, after surviving 2 years on the ice, enlisted to fight in WW1. Probably thought it was an easier gig, 🙂 “Machine guns? – Pffft! Lemme tell you about _cold_.” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/159 "2026-04-11T06:30:51Z")
_Lord of Light_ does also have actual nuclear weapons. > “In the old days I would have taken the thunder chariot–” Brahma gumbles. > > “In the old days there was not thunder chariot,” Ganesha reminds him; “Lord Yama --” > > “Silence! We have a thunder chariot now. I think the tall man of smoke who wears a wide hat shall bend above Nirriti’s palace.” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062/160 "2026-04-11T17:19:24Z")
I ran across an article I wrote about _Outpost Mars_ by Cyril Judd (Cyril M. Kornbluth and Judith Merril). Coincidentally it was also written in 1950, and set even farther out into the future, in 2135. Anybody who thinks Bradbury ran amiss for not putting enough future in his stories will be shocked by the world of Mars in 2135. A Mars colony and spaceships are the only things that make the book science fiction. Otherwise, it is an exact pastiche of US wild west frontier towns, with a plot that exactly parallels what would become season 3 of _Deadwood_. [Quoting from myself](https://www.flyingcarsandfoodpills.com/outpost-mars): > The plight of the mother in labor, whose “Mars child” drives the plot, is equally ancient; her 36-hour-long suffering is alleviated by almost no medical technology that couldn’t be found in a western. … > > Sun Lake has no screens. No computers, no television (no entertainment of any kind), and apparently no mirrors or other glass. Line of sight radio transmission (and retransmission) is the only way to communicate between colonies. People needing to summon the doctor send out a runner, meaning they don’t have in-home radios or telephones. It gets worse. The airplane – yes, an airplane: the “thin” atmosphere is remarkably like Earth’s except with less oxygen – can’t transmit voices; it uses a spark gap transmitter to send morse code. It’s never clear if the planet has a radio that can reach Earth. No mention is ever made of this and no one knows that the supply rocket is coming in two weeks early until it’s a day away. The colonists have no idea that new members are on the rocket so don’t know their numbers or their needs to prepare housing for them. They simply show up, as if on a stagecoach. A reporter is able to cancel a damning story on Sun Lake before anyone on Earth can read it because it apparently needs to physically transmitted on paper by the rocket. Mars has women; it needs radio. This is not a spoof or comedy, but a book about characters and society intended to use the tropes of science fiction to form an allegory for contemporary readers. Bradbury worked to similar effect. Neither gave a thought to readers a century or two later. Neither should have. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-martian-chronicles-is-either-a-clumsy-fix-up-or-a-brilliant-satire-and-im-not-sure-which-but-maybe-its-both-a-very-belated-book-report/1029062.md?page=9)