# The Marvelous Ms. Marvel **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, disney-hulu\ **Created:** [March 15, 2022, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116 "2022-03-15T15:05:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116/301 "2023-07-19T19:47:33Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And being responsible for multiple worlds only makes that harder. That was shown perfectly way back in the Superman (Christopher Reeve) movie, the nuclear missile exploded, dropping California into the ocean and creating Otisville and the Tessmacher Peaks. Supes couldn’t be everywhere and had to let Lois get crushed in an avalanche. It humanized him for the audience, and humbled his assumed omnipotence as a character. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116/302 "2023-07-19T20:42:11Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > Supes couldn’t be everywhere and had to let Lois get crushed in an avalanche. I kinda agree with this, though. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/yavK0mnE3wI/maxresdefault.jpg "How Superman Should Have Ended") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yavK0mnE3wI) ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116/303 "2023-07-21T04:08:35Z")
…the latest Marvels Trailer is up. It looks like everything I want in a movie. I’ll be seeing this in the theatres, first in a number of years for me! > **[Marvel Studios' The Marvels | Official Trailer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS_qbDztgVY%2F)** > > This fall, The Marvels take flight.Carol Danvers aka Captain Marvel has reclaimed her identity from the tyrannical Kree and taken revenge on the Supreme Inte... ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116/304 "2023-07-21T05:20:36Z")
If Kamala can’t hang out with Tuning Fork Dog, at least there’s Cthulhu Cat. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116/305 "2023-07-21T10:41:10Z")
Looks like I’ll like this as much as _Captain Marvel_ - and I _love_ that movie. I haven’t yet seen the _Ms. Marvel_ TV show, but I’m assuming it’s not required. I didn’t see _WandaVision_ and could follow _Dr Strange ITMoM_ just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116/306 "2023-07-21T10:42:32Z")
That looks better. Although was there a Bollywood dance number in there? ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116/307 "2023-07-21T10:56:02Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > but I’m assuming it’s not required. You should watch it anyway. Iman Vellani is a treasure. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116/308 "2023-07-21T11:41:07Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I haven’t yet seen the _Ms. Marvel_ TV show, but I’m assuming it’s not required. If you are familiar with the character at all I doubt it will be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116/309 "2023-07-21T12:44:25Z")
Disney+ is a pain to do here. Doesn’t have an app for the PS4, like Netflix and Amazon do. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116/310 "2023-07-21T16:28:32Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > [@Alessan](#): > > > > That’s not what you said - you said she cleans up other people’s messes. > > …I didn’t say that. > > > [@Alessan](#): > > > > What challenges does she face? > > This twitter thread says it all best: > > > [@Genetic Gen](#): > > > > Male heroes often don’t have powers, then get powers, then change as people. With great power comes great responsibility etc. Power fantasy and the emotional challenges that come with having these powers > > > > Danvers’ arc is coming to realise and then address that institutions & shit men around her won’t LET her grow. That’s the fucking point > > > > At the start of the film she has powers. She’s told by a powerful man in her life that she only has the powers because they gave them to her. With his own blood no less. And he tries to stop her realising how powerful she is. Also always telling her to calm down, not be emotional > > > > In reality it’s the literal opposite. They’re actually limiting her power. The device on her neck that they tell her is needed to control her power is literally just there to stop her from reaching her true potential. The institution won’t let her grow > > > > … > > > > Danvers doesn’t become a powerful woman. She IS a powerful woman! But some dick is telling her she’s not. Some institution has policies in place to hold her back. Her emotional arc doesn’t come from gaining power but realising they’re working to limit her potential > > More at the link. > > [https://twitter.com/GeneticJen/status/1113715734746750976?ref\_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1113715734746750976|twgr^5ca1c3b3f949bf8d769b07874a3fc3002060c687|twcon^s1\_&ref\_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickfilosopher.com%2F2019%2F04%2Fcurated-explaining-captain-marvels-vitally-important-gamechanging-character-arc.html](https://twitter.com/GeneticJen/status/1113715734746750976?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1113715734746750976%7Ctwgr%5E5ca1c3b3f949bf8d769b07874a3fc3002060c687%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickfilosopher.com%2F2019%2F04%2Fcurated-explaining-captain-marvels-vitally-important-gamechanging-character-arc.html) I don’t dispute that there is some validity to that analysis but it also shoehorns some of the movie plot to make it fit the analysis. Danvers gets her power much like every male superhero. There’s an accident and she is made powerful. She doesn’t start off as powerful. And it pretends that the main villain in the movie is Jude Law because it fits that he’s a man. The main villain is played by Annette Benning. Annette Benning’s character is keeping Danners down: Although you can’t exactly characterize the Supreme Intelligence as a woman it’s certainly portrayed by a woman. If you are talking symbology that’s more important than comic book accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116/311 "2023-07-21T16:38:04Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …the latest Marvels Trailer is up. It looks like everything I want in a movie. I’ll be seeing this in the theatres, first in a number of years for me! > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS\_qbDztgVY/](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS_qbDztgVY/) When I first saw the trailer it looked like a light hearted romp. I assumed it would be another Disney+ series. I’m not convinced it wouldn’t be better suited as a series. I’ll still go see it. > [@Gyrate](#): > > That looks better. Although was there a Bollywood dance number in there? My first thought when seeing that was _Basmati Blues._ We don’t know how it will fit in the movie but I thought it was a weird choice for Brie Larson. I would think that she would want no one to ever remember _Basmati Blues._ ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116/312 "2023-07-21T20:46:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Looks like I’ll like this as much as _Captain Marvel_ - and I _love_ that movie. > > I haven’t yet seen the _Ms. Marvel_ TV show, but I’m assuming it’s not required. I didn’t see _WandaVision_ and could follow _Dr Strange ITMoM_ just fine. The part in the trailer where Danvers was knocked into the closet was the last cut scene of _Ms Marvel._ It appears that the movie happens immediately at the conclusion of the TV show. Of course Kamala Khan and her family were only in the TV series. Monica Rambeau as a child was first seen in _Captain Marvel_ but her adult character and powers were first seen in _Wandavision._ This is part of the reason why I figured this would be a TV show for the audience of those shows. I’m sure it won’t be impossible to follow but you may lose some of the context. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116/313 "2023-07-21T22:56:45Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > but it also shoehorns some of the movie plot to make it fit the analysis. …nah, it doesn’t. Its a perfectly valid reading that is supported by everything we see on screen. Its exactly my takeaway from the film as well, and there are others in this very thread who have said the same. > [@Loach](#): > > She doesn’t start off as powerful. Carol _gets_ powerful, then is immediately gas lit by Yon-Rogg and co into thinking she isn’t as powerful as she is. That she doesn’t start out powerful is beside the point. She is one of the most powerful super-powered humans around. But they didn’t let her know that. It wasn’t until the end of the movie, when she finally broke free from their grip, that we saw what she could do. But from the second the explosion happened, she was _always_ that powerful. > [@Loach](#): > > And it pretends that the main villain in the movie is Jude Law because it fits that he’s a man. It isn’t “pretending.” There are multiple villains, but Yon-Rogg is the primary antagonist, just like how in the original trilogy Darth Vader was the main villain even though the Emperor was _also_ a villain and the boss. > [@Loach](#): > > The main villain is played by Annette Benning. Annette Benning’s character is keeping Danners down: Although you can’t exactly characterize the Supreme Intelligence as a woman it’s certainly portrayed by a woman. The Supreme Intelligence was an AI. It could take whatever form that it liked. It _chose_ to take the form of Mar-Vell because it was _gas-lighting_ Carol. Mar-Vell was Carol’s mentor. The Supreme Intelligence knew exactly what it was doing. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116/314 "2023-07-22T05:53:00Z")
Yes good to see you agree ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116/315 "2023-07-22T07:27:08Z")
…odd. I actually disagree with _everything_ that you said. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116/316 "2023-07-22T08:09:46Z")
Agree to disagree about disagreeing? ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2023, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116/317 "2023-07-27T16:49:09Z")
I wish that Marvels was more closely attuned to the Al Ewing “Ultimates” \* comics team of Cap Marvel, Photon, Black Panther, America Chavez…etc…a team that goes around investigating and kicking cosmic sized threats asses. First establish this team and THEN let them get curb-stomped by Kang in the next Avengers film. This establishes a more likable team of Avengers IMHO and gives Kang more cred. \*Not to be confused with the Ultimates comicbooks. This is a 616 team. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marvelous-ms-marvel/961116.md?page=15)