# The Marx Bros.--Paramount vs. MGM **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 9, 2004, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345 "2004-05-09T21:37:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/41 "2004-05-11T04:32:02Z")
[[http://w1.660.telia.com/~u66002771/humorisk.htm](http://w1.660.telia.com/~u66002771/humorisk.htm)]This page from the [[http://marxbros.cjb.net/](http://marxbros.cjb.net/)]Marxology website is devoted to it. The page seems to have everything known or guessed about the film, even what presumably is a cast photo. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/42 "2004-05-11T04:33:31Z")
[Here’s the proper link.](http://w1.660.telia.com/~u66002771/humorisk.htm) [sub]Ha! I remembered to turn off my sig this time![/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Mame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/858c86/32.png) [@Mame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mame)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/43 "2004-05-11T11:28:41Z")
\*\* Girl Next Door\*\*, they don’t just know the Marx Brothers, they know Kaufman, Perelman and (in an earlier thread) Max Schulman! Soon, one of them will mention H Allen Smith, and my cup will runneth over. _Love Happy_ was the first Marx Brothers film I ever saw, so I’ve a soft spot for it. After watching the other Marx brothers films, ALL of them, EVEN _The Story of Mankind_ I still have a soft spot for _Love Happy_ I think because it seems to me to feature more of Harpo. And crud though much of the movie was, didn’t anyone else love the scene with Harpo and the giant neon advertising signs?. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/44 "2004-05-11T13:15:43Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > Glenn Mitchell’s _Marx Brothers Encyclopedia_ summarizes all the printed references to Humorisk. It was a pun on Humoresque (a melodrama starring Fannie Hurst) . . . _Humoresque_ was a 1919 short story by the hugely popular author Fannie Hurst, which was made into a B’way show in 1923, and films in 1920 and 1946 (the latter starring Joan Crawford in one of her best performances). Now, back to your discussion, kiddies . . . ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/45 "2004-05-11T13:26:18Z")
> [@Mame](#): > > And crud though much of the movie was, didn’t anyone else love the scene with Harpo and the giant neon advertising signs?. Probably the first deliberate product placements in films – they ran out of money, so asked various advertisers if they could work their logos in – for a fee. ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/46 "2004-05-11T13:38:46Z")
If you use Amazon’s “Search inside this book” feature on _The World According to Groucho Marx_, searching for “Humorisk” you’ll find this on page 51 > [@](#): > > . . . the audience response was so negative that the Marx Brothers realized they had made a serious error of judgement and that if any Hollywood film producer should happen to see it their celluloid dream would never be realized. . . . The master reel was burned and although one copy was kept for many years, it had deteriorated beyond repair by the time anyone retrieved it. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/47 "2004-05-11T15:29:07Z")
As I posted earlier, every statement made about Humorisk is contradicted by someone else’s memory. There is no evidence for the claim that the master reel was burned or that one copy was kept. No real evidence against it either, except that other people disagree. BTW, the current issue of Entertainment Weekly, in its review of the MGM DVD just released, says that the Paramount\* films DVD will be out later this year. \*I know I said Universal earlier. I just gotta get those brain cells in for a tune-up. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/48 "2004-05-11T16:06:34Z")
“The plot had Harpo as a detective named Watson, who wears a deerstalker cap.” IIRC, this bit of business got carried over to one of their later films. Didn’t Harpo appear in a deerstalker, pipe, and disguise (that looked the same from the front and the rear)? ---
**Author:** ![JasonG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@JasonG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JasonG)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/49 "2004-05-11T18:39:45Z")
**Expano MapCase** , your brain cells are in better shape that you think. Before cable, before home video, studios didn’t value their movie libraries very much. What could you do with, say, _Double Indemnity_, except sell it to one of the three networks to occasionally air as their Sunday Night Movie? And that’s an A-picture. B–pictures were relegated to broadcast at 2:00 a.m., or Saturday mornings, or only on local channels (hence Elvira’s career). In need of cash, Paramount sold its library of films up to 1950 to Universal. The studio now has _Indemnity_ (coming out in July), _Lost Weekend_, and all the Hope & Crosby films. The studio also acquired virtually every one of Hitchcock’s American films, and sells them in various collections that include episodes of _Alfred Hitchcock Presents_. Thus, though the studio only produced eight or so Hitchcock movies, it can claim the filmmaker’s entire U.S. ouevre (for the record: _Psycho_ was shot on the Universal lot, by the crew of Hitch’s TV show, but for Paramount). ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/50 "2004-05-12T06:26:54Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > BTW, the current issue of Entertainment Weekly, in its review of the MGM DVD just released, says that the Paramount\* films DVD will be out later this year. Hooray! ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/51 "2004-05-12T13:44:28Z")
> [@plnnr](#): > > IIRC, this bit of business got carried over to one of their later films. Didn’t Harpo appear in a deerstalker, pipe, and disguise (that looked the same from the front and the rear)? Yup, the first Chico/Harpo scene in _Duck Soup_. Where they’re a pair of spies reporting to Louis Calhern. “Sure, we shadow Firefly! We shadow 'im all day!” “Well, what day was that?” “Shadderday!” ---
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/52 "2004-05-12T17:11:35Z")
My brother and I used to have a handful of Marx Bros films we’d taped off late night TV when we were kids. I loved “A Night at the Opera”, especially the music. THERE! I SAID IT! I loved Harpo’s & Chico’s music bits in all the movies. For some reason though, I have a soft spot for “Go West.” I think that’s the one we watched the most because of it’s sheer corniness. The bit with the floozies getting them drunk on Mint Juleps used to have us rolling. [“No ice in mine, it takes up too much room!” “Y’know, it’s a funny thing…I’m not drunk, but what’s the ceiling doing on the floor?”] Naturally we drove our parents crazy with constant Groucho/Chico scene recitals, mostly when they were a captive audience, such as a long, nerve-fraying car trip. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/53 "2004-05-18T09:56:17Z")
Thanks are in order to **Eve** for starting this thread, and to **Big Bad Voodoo Lou** for that link. My birthday is Wednesday; I sent the link to my parents, and today the boxed set arrived. It’s a gift edition, so I now have A Night at the Opera, A Day at the Races, A Night in Casablanca, Room Service, Go West, At the Circus, and The Big Store. The latter five I’ve never seen before. Of course, even my personal favorite (Duck Soup) isn’t on there, but it was quite a moment for me to have these after years and years of watching the Brothers on videotapes my parents copied from PBS… you can imagine what kind of shape they were in after dozens of viewings. I guess I’ll have to start picking up the Paramount titles, since it seems sorta pointless to have those and not have Duck Soup, Animal Crackers and Horse Feathers, plus the others I’ve never seen, or haven’t seen in a long time. I’ve got A Night at the Opera on now, just got through the ‘Sanity clause’ bit. 😃 Which of the five ‘new’ ones should I check out first? I realize these movies aren’t supposed to be the best, but I imagine I’ll still be amused. It’s been probably three years since I first saw Opera and Races, and I’ve just been re-watching since then. Incidentally, my folks also got me a Pink Panther boxed set - a similar case of some very funny work with a decline in quality. I’ll need somebody to remind me which of those are good and which aren’t as well. I already know to avoid the one with Ted Was. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/54 "2004-05-18T11:02:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’ve got A Night at the Opera on now, just got through the ‘Sanity clause’ bit. 😃 Which of the five ‘new’ ones should I check out first? I realize these movies aren’t supposed to be the best, but I imagine I’ll still be amused. Their later movies might not be the best, but there’s one thing to remember: **There’s no such thing as a bad Marx Brothers film.** (_Humor Risk_ notwithstanding, and you couldn’t see that one anyway.) Even the least impressive of them are funny enough to watch once. In any case, I’d say your choice depends on what you’re in the mood for. _At the Circus_ is kind of like a watered-down version of _Opera_ or _Races_, and it has Groucho singing the famous “Lydia the Tattooed Lady” song. Had Irving Thalberg been around to produce this film, it probably would have been as good as _Races_, maybe better. Of course, having said that, if Thalberg hadn’t died while _Races_ was in production, _Races_ would have been a better film, as well. Kenny Baker, the film’s ersatz Zeppo, is a bit of a drip, frankly, and isn’t near as good as Allan Jones. Margaret Dumont’s role is smaller than usual, but somehow Groucho manages to victimize her even more than usual. If you’ve ever wanted to see Groucho flirting with an upside-down Eve Arden or Margaret Dumont fired from a cannon this is your chance. Probably the best of their later films. _Room Service_ is fairly good considering it was the only occasion where the Marxes preformed material which hadn’t been written for them, hence Groucho’s suprisingly normal character name (instead of something like Theodore L. Crankshaft it’s just Gordon Miller.) It was produced by RKO instead of MGM, and includes Lucille Ball as a straight woman character. Pressed for a description I’d say it was most like _The Coconuts_ or _Animal Crackers_ in style, being a film adaptation of a play. It’s quite good, all told, if a bit different from the norm. _Go West_ is probably best remembered for the finale where the Marxes manage to do just about every concievable joke involving a steam-engined passenger train, but the hectic business transaction in the stagecoach is good, and the opening scene in the railroad terminal where Groucho tries to sell Harpo a beaverskin hat is funny, even if it is a second-rate version of the Tootsy-Frootsy ice cream scam from _Races_. There’s also a good line later on when Chico suggests telephoning for help. Groucho replies “Telephone? This is 1870! Don Ameche hasn’t invented the telephone yet.” I thought this film was great as a child, but I don’t find it as funny as I once did. The two romantic leads are just so-so, too. _The Big Store_ was supposed to be the Marxes last film. Margaret Dumont and Douglas Dumbrille (Morgan from _Races_) turn up again, and Tony Martin (the romantic lead _de jour_) sings the worst song in a Marx film, “Tenement Symphony”. The finale, a chase through a department store filmed mostly in fast motion, is pretty good, but not as good as it could have been. And Chico finally encounters another Italian emigree (no, I mean a real _genuino_ Italian), who initially thinks that Chico is making fun of the way he speaks! Better than its reputation. _A Night in Casablanca_ is an interesting coda to the Marx Bros. film career together (yes, yes, I know about _Love Happy_, but I’ve never seen it.) It’s Groucho’s last appearance with his grease paint mustache and eyebrows, and there are fewer spoofs of Bogart and Bergman’s _Casablanca_ that you’d expect. The film is also unusally political for a Marx Brothers film, seeing as the plot involves a Nazi-in-disguse (Sig Ruman, the erstwhile Herr Gottlieb/Dr. Steinberg) trying to sneak stolen treasure out of a hotel in post-war Casablanca. The two romantic leads (a hotel employee and a disgraced French Air Force pilot) are almost completely sidelined until they show up in the finale to help tie up the plot. It’s all right, and a segment in the middle of the film was lifted almost straight from _Races_, but nothing special, frankly, and Chico looks quite old compared with some of the earlier films (FYI, he was 59 when the film was made.) BTW, I always wonder why people call Zeppo the “romantic one”, since the only film where he gets a girl to romance is _Monkey Business_. He does start out as Thelma Todd’s squeeze in _Horse Feathers_, true, but that doesn’t last long once Groucho and the others meet her (in fact, the second half of _Horse Feathers_ doesn’t do much for Zeppo at all.) It’s a bit of a pity that he always had to play the straight man, because those few occasions when he had to do something funny (singing like Maurice Chevalier in _Monkey Business_ is the only example I can think of off the top of my head), he manages to do a decent job. Watch the way he energetically bounds down the stairs at the beginning of _Animal Crackers_ And of course being Groucho’s foil without going nuts requires discipline, if nothing else. Can you tell I’m a fan of Zeppo? If I ever become an author I may try to write a biography of Zeppo. God knows what the title would be. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/55 "2004-05-18T14:05:28Z")
Not sure if it’s been mentioned in this thread already, but _The Big Store_ was apparently an expanded version of one episode from Groucho and Chico’s radio show, _Flywheel, Shyster, and Flywheel._ Perhaps that explains the skimpier feel of the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/56 "2004-05-18T15:36:44Z")
Hey, all of you Marx Brothers fans, be very careful. I actually purchased the wrong “Marx Brothers Collection” on eBay by accident, and now I’m probably going to have to follow through with the sale. I’m out $28 or so… unless anyone wants this one: [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000DJYPL/qid=1084894417/sr=1-2/ref=sr\_1\_2/104-5641173-5244712?v=glance&s=dvd](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000DJYPL/qid=1084894417/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-5641173-5244712?v=glance&s=dvd) It is a 5-DVD set called the “Marx Brothers Collection,” although it has a bunch of clips, interviews, and documentaries… not the set we’ve all been talking about with the actual films. Like I said, if anyone wants to take this off my hands, I would be in your debt if I could just break even on it. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/57 "2004-05-18T17:37:22Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Not sure if it’s been mentioned in this thread already, but _The Big Store_ was apparently an expanded version of one episode from Groucho and Chico’s radio show, _Flywheel, Shyster, and Flywheel._ Perhaps that explains the skimpier feel of the movie. Which reminds me… For those of you who want the ultra-complete Marx Brothers, [www.radiogoldindex.com](http://www.radiogoldindex.com) lists a surviving episode and fragments of another of _Flywheel, Shyster, and Flywheel_, and a book of scrips from the show, _Flywheel, Shyster, and Flywheel: The Marx Brothers’ Lost Radio Show_ was published in 1988, by Pantheon. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/58 "2004-05-18T21:25:53Z")
It has been years (nay, _decades_) since I’ve seen a Marx Brothers film. While trying to figure out a consensus opinion in this thread of the relative merits of the various movies, I decided to see what the IMDB voters had to say. For what it’s worth, here are the results (with the average rating in parentheses): Duck Soup (8.3) A Night At The Opera (8.2) Horsefeathers (7.7) Animal Crackers (7.7) Monkey Business (7.6) A Day At The Races (7.5) Cocoanuts (6.8) At The Circus (6.8) A Night In Casablanca (6.8) Go West (6.6) Room Service (6.5) The Big Store (6.2) ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/59 "2004-05-18T23:59:05Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > It has been years (nay, _decades_) since I’ve seen a Marx Brothers film. :eek: > [@](#): > > While trying to figure out a consensus opinion in this thread of the relative merits of the various movies, I decided to see what the IMDB voters had to say. For what it’s worth, here are the results (with the average rating in parentheses): > > Duck Soup (8.3) > A Night At The Opera (8.2) > Horsefeathers (7.7) > Animal Crackers (7.7) > Monkey Business (7.6) > A Day At The Races (7.5) > Cocoanuts (6.8) > At The Circus (6.8) > A Night In Casablanca (6.8) > Go West (6.6) > Room Service (6.5) > The Big Store (6.2) Just FYIETNAM (For your information even though nobody asked me) my own rankings from off the top of my head would go about like this: _A Night At The Opera A Day At The Races Animal Crackers / Horse Feathers Duck Soup / Monkey Business / The Cocoanuts At The Circus Room Service / The Big Store A Night In Casablanca / Go West_ Notice that I think a lot of the films are as good as each other. Oh, and **Eve** , feel free to kill me for ranking _Duck Soup_ fourth/fifth. [sub]It’s not that I think _Duck Soup_ is bad, because it’s not. I just think the others are better. That is, i.e., to wit, in lieu of, and lacking anything else to use as an example: _Duck Soup_ is great, but the others are better than great. I think. Maybe **Eve** should kill me for all the disclaimers I’ve put in this post instead.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345/60 "2004-05-19T01:22:47Z")
Wow, this thread has made me nostalgic. In my early teens I loved the Marx Brothers, I watched their movies whenever they played them on TV, I read their biographies, I made a t shirt with their faces on it. Then a movie theater near us that played old or artsy films had a double or triple feature of some Marx Brothers films and I begged my mother to go. She didn’t want to take me so she made my older brother by a few years drive me and go in to the movies with me. He of course didn’t want to be there and brought a friend of his so they could hang out together but then he made me sit with them in the front row. My neck hurt from trying to look at the screen and my brother and his friend talked through it and the whole experience was ruined for me. I’d love to see these movies again in the comfort of my own living without straining my neck and without my brother present. These movies are going on my wish list, if only I could afford them now. I can’t remember specifics of the films they all run together now, but I can’t remember having seen a bad one. I loved Harpo and I often dressed up like him at Halloween. Oh, and you guys are indeed impressive for your vast knowledge of these films. I salute you! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-marx-bros-paramount-vs-mgm/244345.md?page=4)