# "The Matrix Reloaded" question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 24, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-matrix-reloaded-question/522418 "2009-12-24T04:39:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-matrix-reloaded-question/522418/21 "2009-12-26T19:28:43Z")
> [@Smitty](#): > > Really? Even though she has the gun at his temple and somehow manages to put a bullet hole in the middle of his forehead? I think that could have been improved JUST a bit. Or the fact that she says “dodge this” with a slight pause before shooting, despite the movie JUST ESTABLISHING that the agents could, in fact, move fast enough to “dodge that.” That scene should have had Trinity shooting first and delivering pithy one-liners after. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-matrix-reloaded-question/522418/22 "2009-12-26T19:57:27Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Yes. I enjoyed the second movie well enough, and loved the whole idea that there’s a revolution/rebirth cycle and not a real salvation involving Neo in a “The One” type role. Then in the third movie, they seemed to just completely drop this idea. It was aggravating. I thought Neo changed the rules, obviating the “deal” in place to do a hard reboot of the Matrix like the previous “Ones” had agreed to. But Neo’s love for Trinity made him make the choice of either redemption for the human species (including her), or annihilation. Like **Illuminatiprimus** , I too am a bit puzzled by the negative reaction to the sequels. The original had its share of mindless action sequences and psychobabble; the only thing I would have preferred to have seen was the idea of nested realities. Every time Neo thought he had finally reached the “real” world, it would have turned out to be just another level, perhaps with each level getting more and more bizarre and him going on a 2001-style vision quest to dig all the way to the truth, with Smith on his tail every step of the way (or, perhaps to find out there is no one “reality” underlying it all-elephants all the way down). But I rarely see that criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-matrix-reloaded-question/522418/23 "2009-12-26T20:14:14Z")
That would be a cool way to do a remake **John**. And I also liked the sequals, but more for their mindless action parts rather than their “intellectual” or “deep” parts. Let us not forget that the sequals starred [Monica](http://www.lahiguera.net/cinemania/actores/monica_bellucci/fotos/41/monica_bellucci.jpg) [Bellucci’s](http://www.lahiguera.net/cinemania/actores/monica_bellucci/fotos/60/monica_bellucci.jpg) [Breasts](http://matrix.ugo.com/images/galleries/matrix_monicabellucci_girls/matrix_monicabellucci_27.jpg). Who cares about the other characters when she’s around! [Seraph’s](http://api.ning.com/files/1tk8AClcCstMheALR*xlSmQk9wuF2THaHszimEdUMqJBfn7ZhlVMQgtZYhz-hvRAdFdukdN29*AREQYBqlZvoeCDd35*zUqI/Matrixseraphofzo.jpg) [introduction](http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_img/VFX-code_shot.jpg) and the [Ghostly](http://www.maximumeyewear.com/productfolder/celebrity-sunglasses/movie-sunglasses/matrix-sunglasses/matrix-the-twins-sunglasses/matrix-the-twins-sunglasses.jpg) [Twins](http://wallpapers.free-review.net/wallpapers/36/Matrix_-_The_Twins.jpg) were also pretty bad ass. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-matrix-reloaded-question/522418/24 "2009-12-27T15:27:24Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I thought Neo changed the rules, obviating the “deal” in place to do a hard reboot of the Matrix like the previous “Ones” had agreed to. But Neo’s love for Trinity made him make the choice of either redemption for the human species (including her), or annihilation. Almost - the choice put before the One was to go through one door, establish a new Zion and reload the cycle. This had happened six times before, and each time it was because the One was made to feel love for the human race in a general way that meant he or she couldn’t see it destroyed. The alternative choice would be to see the system start to crash, including the people trapped in the Matrix - but in Neo’s version something was different: he was in love with Trinity. This meant he couldn’t let her die, so he went through the other door establishing the start of a system failure. At the same time Smith was running riot through the Matrix taking it over, to the point where the machines lost control and only Neo could stop him, meaning he actually had something to bargain with them to end the war and save the rest of the humans fighting in Zion (who would have simply been slaughtered if he hadn’t). All of this was engineered by the Oracle, she was the one who changed everything in the final cycle to make it possible to break it. Still, the movie throws up some interesting questions around free will vs determinism and ultimately the ability to choose, and whether we actually have it. That, for me, made the trilogy worth watching. Oh, and I love Seraph’s introduction too, totally cool. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![zenkoan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7993a0/32.png) [@zenkoan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zenkoan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-matrix-reloaded-question/522418/25 "2009-12-27T16:42:18Z")
the part about the sequels that bothered me the most were at the end of 1, Neo realized he DIDN’T HAVE to fight. He could see and manipulate the matrix. & then there they go fight, fight, fight for the next 2 movies. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-matrix-reloaded-question/522418/26 "2009-12-27T18:10:06Z")
Didn’t he? In what way? Sure he could manipulate things to an extent (stopping bullets being a good example) but he couldn’t control everything. If people were out to get him (and they certainly were) he’d still have to fight them off. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-matrix-reloaded-question/522418/27 "2009-12-27T18:23:00Z")
> [@zenkoan](#): > > the part about the sequels that bothered me the most were at the end of 1, Neo realized he DIDN’T HAVE to fight. He could see and manipulate the matrix. & then there they go fight, fight, fight for the next 2 movies. It might look too suspicious to Smith if he were to just give up as soon as he entered The Matrix to get their final battle over with. Mr. Anderson had always given Smith a hard time and now shouldn’t be any different. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-matrix-reloaded-question/522418/28 "2009-12-27T19:26:01Z")
And how did the futuristic techno rave party fit into the cycle/prophecy? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-matrix-reloaded-question/522418/29 "2009-12-27T19:34:00Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > …Let us not forget that the sequals starred [Monica](http://www.lahiguera.net/cinemania/actores/monica_bellucci/fotos/41/monica_bellucci.jpg) [Bellucci’s](http://www.lahiguera.net/cinemania/actores/monica_bellucci/fotos/60/monica_bellucci.jpg) [Breasts](http://matrix.ugo.com/images/galleries/matrix_monicabellucci_girls/matrix_monicabellucci_27.jpg). Who cares about the other characters when she’s around!.. Word. In the second of those photos, I remember reading at the time, her costume was made of a special European surgical tape. She was wrapped into the costume at the beginning of the day’s shooting, and then it was cut off of her at the end. O, to be the wardrobe guy assigned to her! ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-matrix-reloaded-question/522418/30 "2009-12-27T20:00:54Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > And how did the futuristic techno rave party fit into the cycle/prophecy? It made Zion seem like a place worth saving. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-matrix-reloaded-question/522418/31 "2009-12-27T20:01:33Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > And how did the futuristic techno rave party fit into the cycle/prophecy? Interestingly, I’m actually listening to the techno/rave song that was playing. It fits in because it wasn’t a rave, it was a tribal dance, which they were doing to “show them we are not afraid.” ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-matrix-reloaded-question/522418/32 "2009-12-27T20:10:21Z")
I thought it was meant to make the audience sympathize with the machines. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-matrix-reloaded-question/522418/33 "2009-12-27T20:22:20Z")
In the context of the movie, the rave is silly. But I thought it was sexy. There are some pretty fine looking people in Zion; the previous Neo’s chose well. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-matrix-reloaded-question/522418/34 "2009-12-27T20:24:10Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > All of this was engineered by the Oracle, she was the one who changed everything in the final cycle to make it possible to break it. Amusingly, this also means that the Oracle, who was rather pissed at Mr. Smith for being a bastard, is actually responsible for making him such. Smith was arguably the most innocent (if not the nicest) of all the people in the movies: he was incapable of not hating Neo. He had no possible future; the Oracle labored to create the enslaved Smith to destroy everything. Presented with the enslaved Smith ready to destroy everything, she hated him. Without her little programming screw in his head, the movie at least implies that Smith would have simply gone his own way and done his own thing, perhaps becoming a “crime” lord like the Merovingian. Ah well. > [@](#): > > Still, the movie throws up some interesting questions around free will vs determinism and ultimately the ability to choose, and whether we actually have it. That, for me, made the trilogy worth watching. :dubious: Yeah… I’ll just stand over here and disagree quietly and politely. 'Cuz that movie didn’t raise any question. It vaguely raised a conceopt but not only failed to explore it meaningfully, but failed to even ask the question coherently. Epic Fail. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-matrix-reloaded-question/522418/35 "2009-12-30T14:16:27Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > All of this was engineered by the Oracle, she was the one who changed everything in the final cycle to make it possible to break it. THANK YOU! This is the part I missed, which makes the movies finally make sense! (Well, except the stupid using humans as energy crap that I fanwank as a Morpheus’s flawed understanding.) ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-matrix-reloaded-question/522418/36 "2009-12-30T18:52:35Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > THANK YOU! This is the part I missed, which makes the movies finally make sense! (Well, except the stupid using humans as energy crap that I fanwank as a Morpheus’s flawed understanding.) Oh - my pleasure. You know, if it makes just one person enjoy the Matrix trilogies it’s all worth it. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-matrix-reloaded-question/522418.md?page=1)