# The McCain Campaign Has Officially Godwinized the Election **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 26, 2008, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608 "2008-10-26T04:16:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/21 "2008-10-26T05:02:53Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Look, as both and Obama supporter and a Jew, I am as appalled as anyone that an operative from within the Republican party, claiming to be acting on their authority, would disseminate such a vile piece of filth. However, party officials have denounced it, McCain himself has denounced it, the perpetrator has been fired, and a correction is going out to everyone who got the original email. At this point it’s one guy’s word against several who have jumped immediately to repudiate it, and there’s little if anything more that they can do about it. Even if there was a yet-to-be-exposed 2nd person who gave this schmuck approval to send it out, the state party as a whole has taken the appropriate action. What more would anyone have them do? > > I just can’t wait for the next 9 days to pass and for this shit to be over. As **askeptic** suggests, I think you’re cutting them too much slack. I don’t find it particularly plausible that this guy just went rogue with this, especially given the additional facts in the NYT article. But your position is fair and charitable, and we definitely need more of that. So, for the record, I regret the implication of certainty contained in the OP and title. As an aside, I’d very much like to see the content of their “correction.” What does that even mean? Oops, we didn’t mean to imply that Obama’s election would lead to a second holocaust? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/22 "2008-10-26T05:06:35Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Another child molester in this thread. They’re everywhere! That would be a valid point if I was a known child molester who had been convicted several times and caught on film molesting kids and caught in several bogus denials… ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/23 "2008-10-26T05:06:55Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > You’re making something of a valid point, kinda… but you’re doing it in just about the most jerkish manner possible Rand. Some people are able to listen to reason while others need to be slapped across the snoot with it. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/24 "2008-10-26T05:15:46Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > That would be a valid point if I was a known child molester who had been convicted several times and caught on film molesting kids and caught in several bogus denials… The problem with this is that you have based your conclusion that the GOP would do something like this on past stories that have as much basis as does this one. This is why I was arguing with Dio over the use of the word “lie” in a thread where he said McCain lied but there wasn’t much evidence for it. And then a week after we had that argument, he said something in another thread about “all of McCain’s lies.” This whole thing is a house of cards that you’ve built where your opinion about the GOP colors your perception of an event which in turn is then used as evidence for that opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/25 "2008-10-26T05:17:46Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > So, for the record, I regret the implication of certainty contained in the OP and title. You should ask a mod to close this thread (or at least change the title so that anyone else so inclined can call you a dumbass). ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/26 "2008-10-26T05:30:24Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > This whole thing is a house of cards that you’ve built where your opinion about the GOP colors your perception of an event which in turn is then used as evidence for that opinion. We’ll see what the house is made of after Nov. 4th. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/27 "2008-10-26T05:31:30Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > This whole thing is a house of cards that you’ve built where your opinion about the GOP colors your perception of an event which in turn is then used as evidence for that opinion. Uh, you do realize that you’re talking about yourself as least as much as the OP? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/28 "2008-10-26T06:23:45Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You are a child molester. Prove me wrong or it’s true. Dr Deth checks what forum we are in very carefully. You are a troll. Go away and bother some other board. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/29 "2008-10-26T06:28:15Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Some people are able to listen to reason while others need to be slapped across the snoot with it. Actually, this is true. ::_slaps \*\* Rand Rover_\* across snout w/reason\*:: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/30 "2008-10-26T06:32:05Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Richard Parker has the burden of proof to support the statement that the GOP authorized the email. I don’t have the burden to disprove it. Mr. Parker has offered the specific name of a person who claimed responsibility, who worked for the Republican Party of Penn and who said it was authorized. He has met his initial burden of coming forward, and you now have the burden of rejoinder under the traditional rules. You have said the party has disavowed it and fired the guy. Is there anything else to add? Yes, the guy obviously used party computers to email 75,000 people. This was hardly the only stupid thing supposedly authorized by the McCain campaign. At this point, unless there are further things to add, those who are undecided can make up their minds. That’s how non-troll debate works. If you simply say they haven’t met their burden, when they have offered their evidence, you are conceding through incompetence in argumentation. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/31 "2008-10-26T07:52:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Dude! Totally noob! Godwin’s just means that someone will eventually mention something Nazi. Doesn’t mean anything in terms of a win/lose determination. Gonna run right over to My Space and post to everybody what a noob you are, but totally! > > Oh, yeah, using the Holocaust to smear Obama kinda bites. Actually, the law is “as a discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.” So the OP was correctly applying the law since uh… \ WHOEVER sent and approved that message Godwin’d the election by making a comparison to the election of the Nazi party. And the invisible, unspoken corollary does indeed imply (and I’m speaking from experience here) that the side that doesn’t bring up Nazi’s has implicitly won the argument at hand. The precedent for this corollary was probably set [here](http://www.economist.com/PrinterFriendly.cfm?story_id=9645274). And as usual I spent WAY too much time on that ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/32 "2008-10-26T09:53:10Z")
Regardless if the email is endorsed or not, one thing that the incident shows is that something is not going on well, because if 1. The email is endorsed. Enough said. 2. The email is not endorsed. Well, someone think it’s all right to send it out anyway, which speaks about discipline and controlling of subordinates. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/33 "2008-10-26T11:21:32Z")
I get a lot of Anti- Obama mail and I just reply; Well I guess I will have to vote for Nader! Monavis ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/34 "2008-10-26T14:17:02Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I get a lot of Anti- Obama mail and I just reply; Well I guess I will have to vote for Nader! > > Monavis for the people sending the emails that counts as a success… ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/35 "2008-10-26T14:30:05Z")
I’m wondering about the man-hours, and therefore labor cost, it would have taken to weed through their Pennsylvania voter database and supposedly pull the email addresses of only the Jewish voters. They probably would have needed to cross-reference the names with an external list as, to my knowledge, people don’t give their religious affiliation when registering to vote. It seems this would have taken more than one person, which lends credence to the argument that this was not a rogue act. On the other hand, if this guy did all of this alone, in a clandestine manner, then he probably spent quite a bit of time with this when he should have been doing other things. How could it not have been noticed? I’m sorry. I just don’t buy that this was done in a vacuum. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/36 "2008-10-26T14:46:28Z")
[This bit](http://www.politickerpa.com/node/2314) seems more inflammatory to me than the quotes in the linked article do: > [@](#): > > In the 5,796 years of our people, there has never been a more important time for us to take pro-active measures in order to stop a second Holocaust… More explicit. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/37 "2008-10-26T15:17:36Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Mr. Parker has offered the specific name of a person who claimed responsibility, who worked for the Republican Party of Penn and who said it was authorized. He has met his initial burden of coming forward, and you now have the burden of rejoinder under the traditional rules. You have said the party has disavowed it and fired the guy. Is there anything else to add? Yes, the guy obviously used party computers to email 75,000 people. This was hardly the only stupid thing supposedly authorized by the McCain campaign. At this point, unless there are further things to add, those who are undecided can make up their minds. That’s how non-troll debate works. If you simply say they haven’t met their burden, when they have offered their evidence, you are conceding through incompetence in argumentation. No. He is asking to prove a negative, i.e. Prove that the McCain campaign did NOT authorize the email. How can anyone possibly do that, which is why he responds with the child molester allegation. If I accuse you of X, the burden is on me to prove that you did the activity. My word (and in this case the word of the worker) is not good enough. Otherwise every allegation would be undeniably true. You cannot be asked, and, in fact, you cannot prove that you did not do X.. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/38 "2008-10-26T15:39:50Z")
I thought the best part of this story was the reaction from McCain’s people: _"Spokesman Peter Feldman said Saturday night that McCain “rejects politics that degrade our civics.”_ The irony, it burns. > [@Shayna](#): > > I just can’t wait for the next 9 days to pass and for this shit to be over. Double, double. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/39 "2008-10-26T15:45:05Z")
One major problem is all these “independent” organizations that can send out whatever shit they feel like. Our local race for the House is particularly ugly, yesterday I received three different mailings (glossy, colorful, postcards) accusing the Democratic candidate of being a socialist, a unionist, and a taxist. None of these cards officially came from the Republican candidate or party, they came from things called “Freedom’s Watch.” The funniest was from the NeurosurgeryPAC, claiming that only the Republican candidate can fix America’s health care system. I cracked up; I’m not sure who the NeurosurgeryPAC is, but I don’t I would trust an organization of neurosurgeons to have the foggiest clue how to “fix” the health care system, except in their own self-interest. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608/40 "2008-10-26T15:46:35Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > _"Spokesman Peter Feldman said Saturday night that McCain “rejects politics that degrade our civics.”_ > . Peter Feldman, the guy who personally went running to the press with the Ashley Todd big-black-man story, who informed the world that the B was for Obama? So…they didn’t fire him over that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mccain-campaign-has-officially-godwinized-the-election/469608.md?page=3)