# The McMichael/Bryan trial **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 10, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133 "2021-11-10T16:58:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/41 "2021-11-23T21:24:03Z")
The jury has it: > **[Jury gets case of white men charged in Ahmaud Arbery's death](https://apnews.com/article/ahmaud-arbery-georgia-brunswick-a6c84fde31dc86a9b2230f1002ed25af)** > > BRUNSWICK, Ga. (AP) — Jurors in the case of three white men charged with killing Ahmaud Arbery deliberated for about six hours Tuesday without reaching a verdict as they weighed prosecution arguments that the defendants provoked the fatal... ETA: same link as above but the story has been updated. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/42 "2021-11-23T22:50:44Z")
“Defendants in Arbery case can’t use self-defense” – Wait – Did the prosecutor say that, or did the judge say that? We’d expect the prosecutor to say that, of course. But IIRC I saw a headline somewhere that the judge said that too. Is that true? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/43 "2021-11-23T23:38:35Z")
That is not true. The judge did not say that It’s up to the jury to decide if it was self defense. In the Rittenhouse trial I was convinced there would be no split verdict. I felt how the jury decided for the Rosenbaum count would be how they found for all the other counts. In this case I think it might be different. The jury may say guilty to the one who pulled the trigger but not guilty to the other two. I did not follow this trial as closely as the other one but it appears to me the prosecutor did a much better job with this case. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/44 "2021-11-23T23:43:22Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That is not true. The judge did not say that It’s up to the jury to decide if it was self defense. Can you clarify that? So the judge did NOT say it’s up to the jury to decide if it was self defense? But did he SAY to the jury that they may not consider self defense? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/45 "2021-11-24T00:03:30Z")
Loach was missing a period. It should be: > The judge did not say that. It’s up to the jury to decide if it was self defense. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/46 "2021-11-24T00:20:42Z")
Right. He did not say they could not use self defense. This comes from the following article about the jury instructions. > Self-defense cannot be used as a defense if the person is the aggressor in a confrontation and excessive force cannot be used in self-defense, the judge said. That might be where the confusion (or clickbait) came from. Whether it was self defense and if reasonable level of force was used is what the jury is to decide. > **[EXPLAINER: What instructions did jury get in Arbery death?](https://www.klfy.com/national/explainer-what-instructions-did-jury-get-in-arbery-death/amp/)** > > ATLANTA (AP) — Before jurors in the trial of the three men charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery retired to the jury room to begin their deliberations,the judge read them specific instructions on… ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/47 "2021-11-24T04:17:57Z")
Here’s the judge’s definition of citizen’s arrest: > [@](#): > > Explaining the citizen’s-arrest law at the heart of the defense, Walmsley told jurors that someone can make a citizen’s arrest of a person only if a crime has occurred “in his presence or within his immediate knowledge.” > > The judge said such a warrantless arrest must occur “immediately after the perpetration of the offense or, in the case of felonies, during escape.” Outside that timeframe, the citizen’s “power to do so is extinguished,” Walmsley said. > **[Georgia jury ends first day of deliberations with no verdict in Arbery killing](https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/crime-pmn/georgia-jury-ends-first-day-of-deliberations-with-no-verdict-in-arbery-killing/wcm/fef00000-54b3-420e-8516-5bfde97fdd5c/amp/)** > > BRUNSWICK — A Georgia jury deliberated for more than six hours on Tuesday without reaching a verdict on murder and other charges against three white men who… ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/48 "2021-11-24T06:07:05Z")
That “Explainer” article also points out that both the self-defense claim (as in the Rittenhouse case), and the citizen’s arrest claim, place the burden on the prosecutor to prove otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/49 "2021-11-24T18:24:00Z")
Verdicts are in. Awaiting Judge’s reading of them … ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/50 "2021-11-24T18:35:56Z")
There must not have been much debate. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/51 "2021-11-24T18:39:12Z")
Travis McMichael: guilty on all counts. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/52 "2021-11-24T18:41:07Z")
Gregory McMichael: guilty - eight of nine counts. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/53 "2021-11-24T18:42:28Z")
William “Roddie” Bryan: guilty - six of nine counts. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/54 "2021-11-24T18:43:15Z")
I sure hope the DA who used her influence to prevent an arrest, investigation, and trial sees a courtroom too. Public outrage and videotape is what made a trial possible. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/55 "2021-11-24T18:44:58Z")
Thank God! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/56 "2021-11-24T18:47:45Z")
I’m watching the NBC News live feed. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/57 "2021-11-24T18:48:02Z")
i was a bit concerned when they asked for video and 911 call, that it would go over the thanksgiving holiday. it appeared that the requests cleared things up for the jury. well done jury. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/58 "2021-11-24T18:49:33Z")
It appears that Jogging While Black – even with a Long Dirty Toenails Enhancement – isn’t enough reason to murder somebody. Even in Dixie. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/59 "2021-11-24T18:49:44Z")
Good. I was not aware that Travis McMichael (the one who actually fired the fatal shot) also faces federal hate crime charges, and will be tried in February. From CNN: > He has also been indicted on three separate federal hate crime charges, which include interference with rights, attempted kidnapping and using, carrying, brandishing, and discharging a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence. ETA: I see now that all three defendants also face federal hate crime charges. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/60 "2021-11-24T18:50:56Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > It appears that Jogging While Black – even with a Long Dirty Toenails Enhancement – isn’t enough reason to murder somebody. At best, it means that Jogging While Black isn’t _always_ enough reason to murder somebody. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133.md?page=4)