# The McMichael/Bryan trial **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 10, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133 "2021-11-10T16:58:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/101 "2021-11-26T02:47:58Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > He released the video believing that people would see it and conclude that the murderer a were in the right. Well yeah - creating and sharing the video was an attempt to pull a Zimmerman. To make the argument that no, they did not just up and went after some random person and killed him in ambush for the lulz, but rather they confronted someone they thought suspicious and only used deadly force when the person fought back. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/102 "2021-12-19T11:44:16Z")
Oh, isn’t this cute! The Travis and Gregory McMichael pair convicted in this trial: [![](https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/200508074711-greg-travis-mcmichael-mugshot-full-169.jpg) ](https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/200508074711-greg-travis-mcmichael-mugshot-full-169.jpg) But then we have this: [![](https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/211209032910-caldor-fire-suspects-split-medium-plus-169.jpg) ](https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/211209032910-caldor-fire-suspects-split-medium-plus-169.jpg) It’s in relation to this: > **[Father and son arrested on suspicion of starting massive Caldor Fire in...](https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/09/us/caldor-fire-father-son-arrested/?hpt=ob_blogfooterold)** > > A father and son have been arrested and accused of starting the Caldor Fire that burned more than 200,000 acres in California earlier this year, according to authorities. Almost identical father and son, working together, with almost identical facial fungus. And the son’s name is _ **also** _ Travis! Ain’t it sweet? 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/103 "2021-12-29T18:55:35Z")
I hate to be _that guy_, but these guys might be innocent. Hell, the DA hasn’t even released an explanation as to how they supposedly started the fires. I know it’s easy to drift into an “All Cats Are Grey” mentality, but judging these guys because they happen to look like two convicted father-and-son murderers is the same sort of bigotry that led to those same murderers to kill a black man because “he was where he weren’t supposed to be, so he had to be doing something illegal, so…” ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/104 "2021-12-29T19:04:34Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > I know it’s easy to drift into an “All Cats Are Grey” mentality, but judging these guys because they happen to look like two convicted father-and-son murderers is the same sort of bigotry that led to those same murderers to kill a black man because “he was where he weren’t supposed to be … True enough. If I was on a jury making judgments about these guys, I would conscientiously consider only the facts and apply them only as the law intended. But as a poster on a message board, I think I have the leeway to have some fun! You gotta admit, it’s a rather remarkable resemblance! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/105 "2022-01-04T03:41:04Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Almost identical father and son What? Hardly. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/106 "2022-01-05T21:12:36Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > You gotta admit, it’s a rather remarkable resemblance! I mean… no? Those two sets of photos don’t look remotely similar to each other, except in the broadest, “They’re both mugshots of white men,” sense. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/107 "2022-01-07T20:19:39Z")
Gregory and Travis McMichael -life w/out possibility of parole. Bryan - life with the possibility of parole. Random link: > **[Ahmaud Arbery killers sentenced to life](https://www.axios.com/2022/01/07/ahmaud-arbery-murder-sentence-life-parole)** > > The judge sat in silence for about one minute to represent "only a fraction of the time" Arbery was running. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/108 "2022-01-07T20:21:21Z")
Sentences have been handed down. Life plus twenty for both mcmichaels, no parole. Bryan life with possibility of parole. The judge gave a very good explanation of his sentencing. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/109 "2022-01-07T20:38:29Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > The judge gave a very good explanation of his sentencing… Agreed. My audio cut out for part of the Bryan sentencing, but in general I thought he was fairly thoughtful and clear about his thinking. I can’t really find too much fault with his decision. Waiting for a formal submission by the state, but I imagine their request that the convicted be denied any ability to profit off the story of this trial/murder will be upheld. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/110 "2022-01-07T21:37:07Z")
The judge highlighted the fear and pain Ahmaud Arbey might have felt running for over 4 minutes and that neither Gregory and Travis McMichael have shown any remorse for their actions. He said that while he understands that people on trial might not be in a position give an apology, but he was disturbed even by the callousness of turning their back and walking away from Arbey as he lay dying moments after shooting him. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/111 "2022-01-07T21:55:03Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Gregory and Travis McMichael -life w/out possibility of parole. > Bryan - life with the possibility of parole. I was a bit surprised by the severity of the sentences – not that they didn’t deserve it – but it turns out that life imprisonment is the minimum sentence under Georgia law for felony murder. So the judge actually had discretion only on the matter of parole eligibility, which doesn’t happen for 30 years. Both McMichaels also face federal hate crime charges. None of the three are likely to ever see the outside of a prison. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/112 "2022-01-07T21:55:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Robert Rubin, one of Travis McMichael’s defense attorneys, argued that his 35-year-old client deserved the possibility of parole. He said Travis McMichael opened fire only after “Mr. Arbery came at him and grabbed the gun.” But Rubin also acknowledged his client’s decisions to arm himself and chase Arbery were ”reckless” and “thoughtless.” > > “They are not evidence of a soul so blackened as to deserve to spend the rest of his life in prison,” Rubin said. “This was not a planned murder. This was a fight over a gun that led to Mr. Arbery’s death.” > > Greg McMichael’s lawyer, Laura Hogue, said her client didn’t intend Arbery to die, never pulling his gun until his son fired his shotgun. > > “Greg McMichael did not leave his home that day hoping to kill,” Hogue told the judge. “He did not view his son firing that shotgun with anything other than fear and sadness. **What this jury found was this was an unintentional act**.” (bolding mine) I must have missed that in the jury’s decision to convict these men of felony murder. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/113 "2022-01-07T22:00:16Z")
What I find really interesting was that Greg McMichael had let his certification as an investigator lapse 2006-2014 rendering him unqualified to work in the DA’s office, but they simply renamed his title so he could continue to work and draw retirement benefits. Jeez. What employer would do that for you PLUS risk going to jail by covering up your murder? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/114 "2022-01-07T23:47:56Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I was a bit surprised by the severity of the sentences – not that they didn’t deserve it – but it turns out that life imprisonment is the minimum sentence under Georgia law for felony murder. So the judge actually had discretion only on the matter of parole eligibility, which doesn’t happen for 30 years. Both McMichaels also face federal hate crime charges. None of the three are likely to ever see the outside of a prison. From what I have read one of the issues was neither McMichael ever showed a shred of remorse along with their callous indifference just after they shot Arbery. Added to that (and I did not realize this) apparently the whole chase thing took five minutes. That may not sound like a lot but it really is…especially if you are the one being chased. It shows this was not a momentary lapse of reason but a hunt. It is worth noting that, according to [this article](https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/ahmaud-arbery-killing-mcmichael-bryan-sentencing/index.html), while Bryan is eligible for parole under Georgia law he will not be eligible for 30 years so, while he got a more lenient sentence, it won’t amount to much for him (he is 52 now). The McMichaels will never get out of prison. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/115 "2022-01-07T23:49:09Z")
The judge did a superb job of stating his reasoning for the sentences, effectively appeal-proofing the case on that basis, anyway. He also made it clear that the vigilantism aspect of the defendants’ behavior disturbed him greatly. By imposing such harsh sentences, I believe he was doing his utmost to deter such behavior in the future. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/116 "2022-01-07T23:55:00Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > The judge did a superb job of stating his reasoning for the sentences, effectively appeal-proofing the case on that basis, anyway. The sentences follow pretty much automatically from the verdicts, which included multiple felony murder convictions for each of the three. The McMichaels are, however, appealing the verdict itself. Their chances of a successful appeal are basically zero, particularly since the judge seemed to run the trial with impressively even-handed competence. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/117 "2022-01-07T23:59:13Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The sentences follow pretty much automatically from the verdicts, which included multiple felony murder convictions for each of the three. They do. The judge had a little discretion and chose the harsher route by imposing the 20 year terms on both McMichaels consecutive rather than concurrent. He also could have imposed the 5-year terms consecutive and chose to run those concurrent. (I’m working from memory here, but I think I have the terms correct.) That was about all the “leniency” he gave them. Which is to say… not much. I’m glad. I thought he was a splendid judge and one for whom I would have been proud to work. ETA: He did also have discretion to impose the sentences with or without the possibility of parole, and again took the harsher route for the McMichaels. Correctly, I feel. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2022, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/118 "2022-01-08T00:59:03Z")
I couldn’t find video of the sentencing on CNN; the various stories related to it mostly seem to have a video of Arbery’s mother’s impact statement. For those interested, here is what looks to be the complete video: > **[Arbery killers get life in prison; no parole for father, son](https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/arbery-killers-get-life-in-prison-no-parole-for-father-son-1.5731098)** > > Three white men who chased and killed Ahmaud Arbery were sentenced to life in prison, with a judge denying any chance of parole for the father and son who armed themselves and initiated the deadly pursuit of the 25-year-old Black man. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2022, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/119 "2022-01-08T03:36:01Z")
For the sake of accuracy, I believe I erred in saying that all three defendants were convicted of felony murder. The senior McMichael and Bryan were. Travis McMichael was acquitted of felony murder, but convicted of the more serious charge of malice murder (although both carry life sentences) similar to what other jurisdictions call first-degree murder. In any case, both McMichaels got the book thrown at them; Bryan technically has a chance of parole but at his age that doesn’t mean much. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2022, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133/120 "2022-01-08T04:44:00Z")
From the linked article: > [@](#): > > Contending the McMichaels still believed they didn’t do anything wrong, Dunikoski disclosed Friday that Greg McMichael gave cellphone video of the shooting recorded by Bryan to an attorney, who leaked it. > > “He believed it was going to exonerate him,” the prosecutor said. Yeah, I think they got the punishment they deserved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mcmichael-bryan-trial/954133.md?page=7)