# The meaning of life **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 6, 2001, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558 "2001-05-06T19:41:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![johnny\_fishface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@johnny\_fishface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnny_fishface)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/41 "2001-05-09T20:10:09Z")
tracer wrote: > [@](#): > > Well, as far as my butting in to threads about spirit and meaning, it might have to do with the fact that I was sure, absolutely sure, I’d figured out the Meaning Of It All [TM] back in my late teens/early twenties. Then I found out I was full of it. I actually tried to have my comment deleted by the mods because I thought it was inappropriate and snooty for the ‘Great Debates’ - your reply, however, makes it appropriate, and I’m glad you took it as the ‘poke in the ribs’ that it was intended to be. Why did you give up looking for the Meaning Of It All? I haven’t found it yet either, but I’m not going to give up exploring different ideas. I would propose that searching for the meaning of life is a life long process. tracer, I have you at a slight disadvantage, in that I do not have a homepage to put on my profile (sorry), but I have read yours. I think your unique upbringing set you on a quest to discover a “magical energy” - a magical energy that does not exist. But, that does not mean there’s nothing magical about life - that doesn’t mean that it can’t have meaning _to you_. I think that, for many of us, the scientific method has replaced religion (or dare I say… become religion) in the quest for the meaning of life, and it has only shown a hollow, empty, _meaningless_ world. FTR, in opposition to the OP, my kids were not the meaning of life for me, even though their births were extraordinary, life changing events. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/42 "2001-05-09T23:59:24Z")
johnny fishface wrote: > [@](#): > > tracer, I have you at a slight disadvantage, in that I do not have a homepage to put on my profile (sorry), but I have read yours. I think your unique upbringing set you on a quest to discover a “magical energy” - a magical energy that does not exist. Ah. I take it you saw my anti-orgonomy webpages. Heck, my whole stint with orgonomy didn’t even begin to scratch the surface of the iceberg (pardon the mixed metaphor) when it comes to my yourthful quest for a magical energy. I didn’t even mention my experiences with a teen-age long-distance friend who believed he’d discovered a super-intelligent mental state he called “Chronosynclastic Parapinibula” which allowed those few people capable of achieving it access to vast telekinetic powers. Or my perusal of such books as _Telecult Power_, _The Art and Practice of Astral Projection_, and my personal favorite of the time, _David St. Clair’s Lessons on Instant ESP_. My adolescent and young-adult quest for magical energy was really a quest for **power**. Power to move objects with the force of my will, power over the actions of others, power to discern others’ true motivations (hence my interest in the psychological aspects of Wilhelm Reich’s theories as well as the orgone energy aspects), power, power, power. > [@](#): > > But, that does not mean there’s nothing magical about life - that doesn’t mean that it can’t have meaning _to you_. Yeah, but – I always wanted to know the “real” picture. What is most likely, according to the evidence, that life’s purpose actually **is**? Is there evidence that it **has** a purpose? When I believed in orgone energy, the purpose of life was obvious: life concentrated orgone energy (much like it generates the Force in _Star Wars_) and thus contributed a net negative entropy to the universe. This allowed the universe to last forever and not grind down into an eventual Heat Death. When I later discovered, little by little and with much reluctance, that orgone energy was almost certainly a figment of Wilhelm Reich’s imagination, the purpose I perceived for life in the universe evaporated. It now seems that life is nothing more than a very very very complicated chemical reaction, which puts solar and geothermal energy to some use. > [@](#): > > I think that, for many of us, the scientific method has replaced religion (or dare I say… become religion) in the quest for the meaning of life, and it has only shown a hollow, empty, _meaningless_ world. For me, it has shown me a universe far larger and far older than our ancestors had ever imagined, filled with wonders on the scale of the very large – and the scale of the very small – that no previous generations had ever conceived of or, perhaps, _could_ ever conceive of without the sciences. A universe filled not with tiny points of light on the inside of a hollow dome, but with **suns** scattered through the heavens farther than the eye can see. An essential nature of matter not built out of a dull plenum or ndivisible atoms or even electrons orbiting nuclei the way the planets orbit the sun, but of **probability waves** which limit the range of, but do not pin down absolutely, every particle’s position and momentum. And a species of great apes who migrated out of the African plains with brains that had somehow acquired the ability to comprehend it all. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/43 "2001-05-10T02:56:10Z")
**42** Sheesh! ---
**Author:** ![johnny\_fishface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@johnny\_fishface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnny_fishface)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/44 "2001-05-10T04:58:36Z")
kabbes wrote: > [@](#): > > Please define for me what you mean by “meaning”. IMO, we are talking about **purpose** - be it a “higher purpose” or “divine purpose / calling”, I suppose that would be up to the individual. tracer, I have more to say but I am so friggin’ sleepy the words are getting blurry. ☹ (worked 16 hrs today) thanks again for replying. ---
**Author:** ![Procacious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Procacious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procacious)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/45 "2001-05-10T06:14:47Z")
I always thought the meaning of life was to achieve personal happiness (it is really more of an explanation for the behavior of people, but it the closest thing to a meaning that life has). Everything that everyone does is for the selfish reason of making themselves happier (or less miserable if you like looking at the glass half-empty). Evolution will favor those that find happiness in raising children, so naturally these people are plentiful and tend to outnumber those that do not find happiness in raising children (assuming that there is anything genetic involved in the desire to raise children). Even those people that hate children are inclined to raise them if they are one of the child’s parents because the lawful repercussions (or guilt for some people) would make their life less pleasant than taking care of the child would make it. > [@](#): > > We’re no better than a virus. Finally someone else that believes this. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/46 "2001-05-10T20:07:24Z")
Tranquilis wrote: > [@](#): > > **42** > > Sheesh! That’s not the **meaning** , that’s the **answer**! Big difference, y’know. ---
**Author:** ![Wrath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ee7513/32.png) [@Wrath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrath)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/47 "2001-05-10T21:28:03Z")
Hats. People simply aren’t wearing enough hats. The meaning of life - what could be more personal? Don’t believe that such a philosophical question can have one answer for every ponderer. For me: the meaning of life is to make more life. For those unwilling or unable to make more life, they are to help others, that they might make more life. anyone not ascribing to this is in antithesis to life and should be avoided. _For me_. After all, if things alive no longer cared to make more life, it wouldn’t be long before there was no more life. See? Hats is the better answer. Hats I say. ---
**Author:** ![Ad\_the\_Inhaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/34f0e0/32.png) [@Ad\_the\_Inhaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ad_the_Inhaler)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/48 "2001-05-11T07:04:26Z")
it seems that this forum has degenerated, but i wanted to post something regardless. the purpose of life is to continue the species, however trivial that may sound. that is a natural, biological process that has evolved over millions of years. the purpose is to procreate and to continue an individual’s genes. every individual believes that her genes are worth continuing, at which point the process becomes discovering a mate that is worthy enough to create an individual(s) that will excell in its given environment. this seems obvious, as it occurs in all forms of nature. this does not, however, imply that those who are not able to procreate lead meaningless lives, nor are they purposeless. they attach individual purposes to their lives that do not revolve around propagation of the species, although propagation of the species is the ultimate goal. without this purpose attached to the actions of individuals, life would cease to exist, and the earth would be baren and fruitless. since we don’t know why we exist, there is no meaning to life except that meaning that the individual attaches to her own. we do know, however, that the purpose of life is to continue it at all costs, lest our species falls at the hands of the less deserving (from our perspective). ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/49 "2001-05-11T08:59:08Z")
Ah - so for at least one individual, we are talking _purpose_. Then my next question is: why should there be a purpose at all? Whoever guaranteed that? There seems to be a prevalent assumption that life must have a meaning/purpose/reason. I do not see the reasoning that leads to such a belief. pan ---
**Author:** ![Xerxes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/d2c977/32.png) [@Xerxes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xerxes)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/50 "2001-05-11T10:14:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Then my next question is: why should there be a purpose at all? Whoever guaranteed that? No-one. The fact that we are here debating at all is a function of (a) evolutionary luck (that our forbears - both human and otherwise - were successful to some degree in whatever niche they found themselves) and (b) the fact that in the evolutionary struggle there appears to be a clear leader (genes, not homo-sapiens - we’re merely quite successful gene-containers). > [@](#): > > There seems to be a prevalent assumption that life must have a meaning/purpose/reason. I do not see the reasoning that leads to such a belief. I quite agree. That (imo) some of our ‘macro’ behaviour (i.e. general desire for procreation, hence sexual attraction/love) probably has a genetic element to it doesn’t mean that I love less or am attracted less. It just means that (for me) I don’t consider love or attraction as completely nebulous concepts. I think we need to look-for / find an underlying purpose to our lives because we’ve become successful as a species for just those traits (i.e. trying to explain nature; we’re a naturally curious bunch). ---
**Author:** ![Mort\_Furd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mort\_Furd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mort_Furd)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/51 "2001-05-11T11:33:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xenophon41 \* > \*\*_Zygotes are just gametes’ way of making more gametes._ > > (RAH/LL) \*\* Ah, yes. Another reader of the late, great Robert Anson Heinlein. Quite the appropriate quote. Always did like Woodrow Wilson Smith, aka Woody, aka Lazarus Long. Glad to see some of you debating instead of bashing. As I understand it, Great Debates is here to discuss differences of opinion. I have stated mine, and defended it as time has permitted. Thanks to all of you who have posted your opinions and counterarguments. A couple of short replies: > [@](#): > > **Mysphyt** > If you have an ugly child, kill it, for it will be unable to breed and will thus lead a meaningless life. You’ll be putting it out of its misery. I hope that you don’t restrict yourself to appearances only in your search for a partner. I think you will be in for some serious disappointments if you do. > [@](#): > > \*\*LokiTheDog[/] > In the meantime, GD seems like a fine place for this op. There have been a number of threads in the past here that were posted by people like yourself, parents who felt like life had absolutely no meaning if you didn’t have kids. There were plenty of happy childless people who shot the idea down in flames. Maybe your life was devoid of any meaning before your sperm managed to swim a few inches upstream, but a lot of us are perfectly happy without that trivial accomplishment. Loki and I discussed some things the night I started this thread, and seemed to come to an agreement. I am not trying to restart the discussions, just to provide a little background info. New parents don’t have a lot of free time. I started this thread while my wife was in the hospital after the birth and I was at home alone (older daughter at the gradnparent’s house) for the night to catch up on lost sleep before the really long nights started. It is quite likely that threads like this have been started by parents like me before. It is also quite likely that there were a lot of counterarguments. I do, however think that when the parents no longer had time to post that the lack of response was taken as capitulation. **I do not capitulate** (except to dirty diapers and sleep deprivation.) ---
**Author:** ![Mort\_Furd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mort\_Furd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mort_Furd)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/52 "2001-05-11T11:34:34Z")
Repeat after me: Lack of sleep is no excuse for not using the preview function. Crap. Sorry, folks. ---
**Author:** ![Wrath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ee7513/32.png) [@Wrath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrath)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/53 "2001-05-11T12:14:14Z")
yes, yes, but… ontongeny _ **recapitulates** _ phylongeny!!! ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/54 "2001-05-11T19:14:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*Tranquilis wrote: > > > [@](#): > > > > **42** > > > > Sheesh! > > That’s not the **meaning** , that’s the **answer**! Big difference, y’know. \*\* Right, right. I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/55 "2001-05-11T19:23:58Z")
xenophon41 quoted Heinlein: > [@](#): > > _Zygotes are just gametes’ way of making more gametes._ Who was it that said life was invented by water as a means of transporting it? ---
**Author:** ![johnny\_fishface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@johnny\_fishface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnny_fishface)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/56 "2001-05-11T19:44:46Z")
Tom Robbins. ---
**Author:** ![Occam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Occam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Occam)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/57 "2001-05-12T11:02:54Z")
I know what the meaning of life is, but I don’t think you guys can handle it. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2001, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/58 "2001-05-13T02:16:22Z")
You want the truth? You want the truth?! _You can’t handle the truth!!_ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2001, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/59 "2001-05-13T05:22:43Z")
Despite all the sophistic drollery, the meaning of life is quite simple for those of us who grasp its subtleties. To put it in simple terms, the meaning of life is…no…no…NO!..AAAAAARRRRRRGGGH! ---
**Author:** ![johnny\_fishface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@johnny\_fishface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnny_fishface)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2001, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558/60 "2001-05-14T05:15:51Z")
That’s cool, how they were actually able to type out… > [@](#): > > AAAAAARRRRRRGGGH! as something (???) was happening. "Nobody expects… pirates." [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/64558.md?page=4)