# The Meaning of "Life" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [October 11, 2001, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845 "2001-10-11T18:54:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/1 "2001-10-11T18:54:47Z")
Altho this appears to be framed as a debate, it really is a question. Then maybe not. Thinking about spores, it really is alive. Altho the bacterium forms a hard, protective protein covering, there must be some metabolic activity going on inside, or else it would “live” forever. Which is another question: how long does a spore live? Anyway, I was thinking what would be a definition of “living” that would be all inclusive. First I thought metabolic activity, but viruses do not have such activity until they inhabit a living creature, but they do have either DNA or RNA. Therefore, “life” would be any thing that has either metabolic activity or either DNA or RNA. But prions have neither, being pure amino acids. Yet, you cannot exclude them as they cause disease. However, they are a part of a living being. So, “life” would be some thing that has metabolic activity, or DNA/RNA, or is part of something else that is living. However, that appears to be too general. Can we say any of our organs are “life”? Every part of our body has metabolic activity, DNA/RNA, and is part of a living being, but we don’t consider that the part equals the whole. We’re alive, but is our skin “life”? Viruses don’t live forever either, but how long does a virus live? If it never invades a living body, I suppose that the ribonucleic acid would eventually degenerate, but I don’t know. So, there are three questions here: (1) How long do spores live? (2) How long do viruses live (3) What is an all-encompassing definition of life that is not too general. The dictionary definitions of life are not satisfying: the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic objects and dead organisms or a state of existence. The dictionary also gives distinguishing manifestations, but those are characteristics and not the essence of life. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/2 "2001-10-11T20:11:40Z")
42 Someone had to say it. Re-Viruses There is some debate as to whether a virus is actually alive. They can only reproduce by using the cells of other organisms. My Anthropology teacher pointed out a few things that straddle the line between living and nonliving things. Gotta go check my notes. ---
**Author:** ![Mirage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Mirage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mirage)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/3 "2001-10-11T20:30:11Z")
The problem is that biologists haven’t yet come up with a conclusive definition what ‘alive’ really means. Right now the common point of view is that in order to be alive, an orginism must have the ability to self-replicate. This would exclude viruses as they rely on host cells to propigate, pushing them off into the relm of sucessful protien and DNA ‘shells’. If you want to take to a materialistic point of view, you can argue that nothing is really ‘alive’ and that we’re just a complex series of chemical reactions which has managed to convince itself that it exists. ---
**Author:** ![Wonko\_The\_Sane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@Wonko\_The\_Sane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wonko_The_Sane)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/4 "2001-10-11T20:33:46Z")
What you get when you multiply six by nine. Forty-Two. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2001, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/5 "2001-10-12T00:26:22Z")
Quoth [Merriam-Webster’s](http://www.m-w.com/) online dictionary (which I unfortunately can’t link to directly): > [@](#): > > Main Entry: 1life > Pronunciation: 'lIf > Function: noun > Inflected Form(s): plural lives /'lIvz/ > Etymology: Middle English lif, from Old English lIf; akin to Old English libban to live – more at LIVE > Date: before 12th century > 1 a : the quality that distinguishes a vital and functional being from a dead body b : a principle or force that is considered to underlie the distinctive quality of animate beings – compare VITALISM 1 c : an organismic state characterized by capacity for metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction > 2 a : the sequence of physical and mental experiences that make up the existence of an individual b : one or more aspects of the process of living \ > 3 : BIOGRAPHY 1 > 4 : spiritual existence transcending physical death > 5 a : the period from birth to death b : a specific phase of earthly existence \ c : the period from an event until death \ d : a sentence of imprisonment for the remainder of a convict’s life > 6 : a way or manner of living > 7 : LIVELIHOOD > 8 : a vital or living being; specifically : PERSON \ > 9 : an animating and shaping force or principle > 10 : SPIRIT, ANIMATION \ > 11 : the form or pattern of something existing in reality \ > 12 : the period of duration, usefulness, or popularity of something \ > 13 : the period of existence (as of a subatomic particle) – compare HALF-LIFE > 14 : a property (as resilience or elasticity) of an inanimate substance or object resembling the animate quality of a living being > 15 : living beings (as of a particular kind or environment) \ > 16 a : human activities b : animate activity and movement \ c : the activities of a given sphere, area, or time \ > 17 : one providing interest and vigor \ > 18 : an opportunity for continued viability \ > 19 capitalized, Christian Science : GOD 1b > 20 : something resembling animate life \ Now, aren’t you glad that you asked? ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2001, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/6 "2001-10-12T00:40:30Z")
There was an documentary a few years back called The Meaning of Life that pretty much nailed it. Rent it at a video store. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2001, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/7 "2001-10-12T01:47:56Z")
No one has attempted to answer my first two questions re spores and viruses. I don’t want to know the meaning of life (why we exist) but what is life. The M-W definition (1c) is too restrictive, as it eliminates viruses, spores, and prions. Most people will concede that the former two, anyway, are alive. But are they capable of "metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli and reproduction? A spore is not while it is a spore. A virus is incapable of growth. A prion is not capable of any of the above. Definition 1a is a tautology and absolutely meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2001, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/8 "2001-10-12T03:28:15Z")
While prions are organic, they are not living things unto themselves. A prion is a bit of misfolded protein. It does not grow, breathe, eat, move, or respond to environmental stimuli. It does, in a sense, reproduce itself. But so do crystals. Depends on the spore. ``` Again, never mind how long a virus lives. The question is whether it lives at all. As far as a definition of life goes, I'm going with the classic. All living things-grow,move,breathe(this a bit of a simplification, I know) ,eat (again a simplification), move, respond to environmental stimuli (even an amoeba will move towards food), and reproduce (no, spaying or neutering your pet does not classify it as nonliving). This may describe what life does, rather than what life is, but that's the best you'll get. It's also a tremendously useful yardstick. Fire is the classic test. Fire grows and moves. It eats by consuming fuel, and uses oxygen. It may start other fires. However, it does not respond to stimuli. Nor, does it truly breathe. For more on the question of what life is I suggest viewing certain episodes of Star Trek. ``` PS Life-Noun 1 A board game 2 A breakfast cereal that Mikey likes. ---
**Author:** ![Popup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Popup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Popup)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2001, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/9 "2001-10-12T07:17:41Z")
From [imdb.com](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0085959): > [@](#): > > Plot Outline: The comedy team takes a look at life in all its stages in their own uniquely silly way. I agree with **DocCathode**. _Self-replication_ is much too loose a criterion (rf crystals). But on the other hand _metabolism_ is way too strict. I am not a biologist, so I won’t venture any guesses. ---
**Author:** ![RAWisSYDNEY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4491bb/32.png) [@RAWisSYDNEY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RAWisSYDNEY)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2001, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/10 "2001-10-12T07:31:16Z")
in science we had thid thing to tell if someone is alive. They were 7 steps, if they didnt have one of them the thing wasnt alive. It has to do/have all of these things. 1)Reproduce 2)React to (active?) Stimuli 3)Require fuel 4)Leave behind waste anyone else know the other 3?? 1. 2. 3. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2001, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/11 "2001-10-12T09:24:11Z")
Cecil addresses: [Why don’t we consider fire alive? What is life?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a971212.html) This is by no means a complete answer to your question, but he does mention that a lot of biologists do not buy the idea that a virus is alive. I personally won’t accept any definition that doesn’t include J-E-L-L-O. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Scene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Bob\_Scene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Scene)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2001, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/12 "2001-10-12T11:03:44Z")
In my opinion as a biologist, you can’t divide the world into “living” and “non-living.” There are some things that are definitely alive, some things that are entirely inert and some things, like viruses and Bob Hope, that are kind of in the middle. Prions and crystallized viruses are certainly not “alive,” but they aren’t really in the same category as Al Gore’s political career, either. I don’t think you’re likely to find any practicing scientists worrying about the definition of “life.” Like “art,” I know “life” when I see it, and it’s pretty hard to define “life” in such a way that no one can come up with a counter-example. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2001, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/13 "2001-10-12T14:27:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bob Scene \* > \*\*In my opinion as a biologist, you can’t divide the world into “living” and “non-living.” There are some things that are definitely alive, some things that are entirely inert and some things, like viruses and Bob Hope, that are kind of in the middle. \*\* How about Strom Thurmond? 😃 Well, since no one has even attempted to answer my questions about how long spores and viruses exist (I avoid the use of “live”), coincidentally in today’s newspaper there was an article that said the anthrax virus “can live for many years in the ground.” That pinpoints it. 😃 The article said “live” BTW. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2001, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/14 "2001-10-12T14:47:43Z")
Since this relates to one of Cecil’s columns, I’ll move this to Comments on Cecil’s Columns. Life is like porn. Someone once said I can’t define it, but I’ll know it when I see it. Well, I can’t define life, but I’ll know it if I ever get one. **DrMatrix** - General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Cargogal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/48db29/32.png) [@Cargogal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cargogal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2001, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/15 "2001-10-12T14:56:26Z")
“Well, since no one has even attempted to answer my questions about how long spores and viruses exist (I avoid the use of “live”), coincidentally in today’s newspaper there was an article that said the anthrax virus “can live for many years in the ground.” That pinpoints it. The article said “live” BTW.” Ahhh, newspapers. I’m agreeing with Bob. You can’t draw a firm line. What’s so important about defining ‘life’ anyway? I have to say, I’d feel awfully guilty if I had to define clearing a virus as ending ‘life’. Whatever defentition that comes up can be knocked down. You could say that a woman who is on birth control is not alive, since she can’t reproduce. And as a grad student, I have no life, myself. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2001, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/16 "2001-10-12T15:30:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cargogal \* > \*\*Whatever defentition that comes up can be knocked down. You could say that a woman who is on birth control is not alive, since she can’t reproduce. \*\* Actually, she’s just **unwilling** , not can’t. Tho we don’t know that for sure, do we? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2001, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/17 "2001-10-12T17:12:49Z")
Quoth **barbitu8** : “…there was an article that said the anthrax virus ‘can live for many years in the ground.’” Huh? [CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/10/11/anthrax.investigation/index.html) told me that anthrax is caused by a bacterium, _Bacillus anthracis_, and I just can’t believe that the media or the internet lied to me. Are there two things called “anthrax” or something? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2001, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/18 "2001-10-12T17:38:22Z")
Achernar- Yes, there are two things known as anthrax. The first is the disease. The second is a metal band. Barbitu8-Spore is a pretty broad category. IANA biologist but I’m thinking that life span depends on the species of the spore in question. The question is analogous to asking ‘How long do verterbrates live?’. That depends on the vertrebrate-humans aprox 80 years, dogs aprox 20 years, etc. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2001, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-meaning-of-life/86845/19 "2001-10-12T22:06:53Z")
Anthrax is, of course, a bacterium. I don’t know if I blindly just typed what the paper said or if it was a slip. But where do spores normally reside: in the ground? I thought they float in the air. Viruses, I guess, reside, when not in animals or plants, in the air.