# The media is driving our defensive actions not science! **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [April 8, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355 "2020-04-08T16:41:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/101 "2020-04-11T23:46:11Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > “They” include Breitbart, Fox, InfoWars, Daily Caller/Signal/Wire, Facebook, NY Post, Sinclair, Newsmax, Drudge, Twitchy, InstaPundit, One America, and other assorted [del]liars[/del] questionable voices. You specified no media by name; I hope you’re skeptical of those outright propaganda sources. Or are they better than reality? > > [Trump’s Fox News Cabinet Tells Him The Coronavirus Is Over](https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-fox-news-cabinet-tells-him-the-coronavirus-crisis-is-over) These ass clowns need to show us all just how convinced they are about this by visiting a hospital and hugging everyone they see. I’m sure they would except for the fact that they’re all as cowardly as Fearless Leader. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2020, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/102 "2020-04-11T23:54:29Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Your views are a product of the media, you talk of mass graves instead of how many are buried in those graves. You talk of countries showing early success when the virus is still in full swing. You talk of aggressive avoidance measures when no vaccine is in site. I don’t agree with your philosophy on this. I think it is extremely dangerous in so many ways yet it does seem to be the prevailing train of thought. **Stranger** has demonstrated many times that he is quite the wise layman in this area (and many others); you have not. I studied epidemiology and infectious disease at a reputable medical school and have perforce practiced bits of those specialties at need over the past 4 decades, and thus have some insight about what is what. I have been listening to the experts in those areas like the good Dr. Fauci and many others, along with talking to friends of mine in the fields of ID and epidemiology whom I also trust and respect. I’ve been following the science. As a result I don’t give a tinker’s damn about the opinions of lay people when they are expressing opposition to **credible** medical scientists (there are a lot of quacks with MDs, PhDs and DOs after their names out there) and actual solid evidence. And too much of the lay public has no understanding of science; as evidenced by their citing of youtube videos and opinion articles/poorly conducted research/unsupported assertions in junk journals as credible sources. There. I just had to get that off my chest. I’ve seen and heard far, far too much arrant nonsense about COVID on the net, and even worse, on the SDMB about this whole pandemic. I’m isolating even more stringently at home this weekend; I should hear tomorrow whether that patient I saw this Friday past (while wearing my PPE) is COVID positive or not. If I get this, my chances of death are high; I’m over 60 and have the co-morbidities. If the worst happens, at least I’ll go out having done my duty, and I won’t have to listen anymore to the sophomoric assertions of those who think they know things . ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/103 "2020-04-12T00:08:17Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > **Stranger** has demonstrated many times that he is quite the wise layman in this area (and many others); you have not. I studied epidemiology and infectious disease at a reputable medical school and have perforce practiced bits of those specialties at need over the past 4 decades, and thus have some insight about what is what. I have been listening to the experts in those areas like the good Dr. Fauci and many others, along with talking to friends of mine in the fields of ID and epidemiology whom I also trust and respect. I’ve been following the science. As a result I don’t give a tinker’s damn about the opinions of lay people when they are expressing opposition to **credible** medical scientists (there are a lot of quacks with MDs, PhDs and DOs after their names out there) and actual solid evidence. And too much of the lay public has no understanding of science; as evidenced by their citing of youtube videos and opinion articles/poorly conducted research/unsupported assertions in junk journals as credible sources. > > There. I just had to get that off my chest. I’ve seen and heard far, far too much arrant nonsense about COVID on the net, and even worse, on the SDMB about this whole pandemic. > > I’m isolating even more stringently at home this weekend; I should hear tomorrow whether that patient I saw this Friday past (while wearing my PPE) is COVID positive or not. If I get this, my chances of death are high; I’m over 60 and have the co-morbidities. If the worst happens, at least I’ll go out having done my duty, and I won’t have to listen anymore to the sophomoric assertions of those who think they know things . You have all my respect for being on the front lines in this battle especially considering your risk factors. What do you feel is the best course of action we should be taking? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/104 "2020-04-12T02:43:06Z")
Stay at home, social distancing, handwashing, wear masks while out shopping (to prevent the masked person from spreading asymptomatic infections more than anything), trace positive COVID patients and test their contacts and ensure the patients and contacts are not spreading the disease by refusing to stay in quarantine. Keep doing that until the curve is far, far down. That is what will break the back of the pandemic EVENTUALLY and save tens if not hundreds of thousands of lives, if not far more. Not plaquenyl, not zinc, not zithromax, not hydrogen peroxide enemas, not limited opening up of activities. ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/105 "2020-04-12T03:56:09Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Still waiting for that list of authoritative sources with their science-based rationales for lifting isolation measures, chief. You can use both sides of the paper. > > Stranger And I’m still waiting on your report of overrun hospitals all over the world, everywhere, with receptionists and such all overcome. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/106 "2020-04-12T04:43:49Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Stay at home, social distancing, handwashing, wear masks while out shopping (to prevent the masked person from spreading asymptomatic infections more than anything), trace positive COVID patients and test their contacts and ensure the patients and contacts are not spreading the disease by refusing to stay in quarantine. Keep doing that until the curve is far, far down. > > That is what will break the back of the pandemic EVENTUALLY and save tens if not hundreds of thousands of lives, if not far more. Not plaquenyl, not zinc, not zithromax, not hydrogen peroxide enemas, not limited opening up of activities. That will break the back of the country long before it breaks the back of the virus ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/107 "2020-04-12T05:02:38Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > That will break the back of the country long before it breaks the back of the virus :rolleyes: Since a medical expert is not convincing to you, maybe economic experts can: > **[Stop covid or save the economy? We can do both.](https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/08/998785/stop-covid-or-save-the-economy-we-can-do-both/)** > > Contrary to what you’ve heard, shutting down the country is also the quickest way to get it started back up again > [@](#): > > Evidence from research, however, shows that this is a false dichotomy. The best way to limit the economic damage will be to save as many lives as possible. > [@](#): > > The people losing these low-wage service jobs were already experiencing skyrocketing mortality rates from what economists have begun calling “deaths of despair,” caused by alcoholism, drug abuse, and suicide. The coming crash could make things much worse. > > The value of a life > > Yet shutting down businesses is the only real choice, given that an unchecked pandemic would itself be hugely destructive to economic activity. If tens of millions of people become sick and millions die, the economy suffers, and not just because the workforce is being depleted. Widespread fear is bad for business: consumers won’t flock back to restaurants, book air travel, or spend on activities that might put them at risk of getting sick. In a recent survey of leading economists by Chicago’s Booth School, 88% believed that “a comprehensive policy response” will need to involve tolerating “a very large contraction in economic activity” to get the outbreak under control. Some 80% thought that “abandoning severe lockdowns” too early will lead to even greater economic damage. > > Meanwhile, any measures to slow deaths from the virus will have huge downstream economic benefits. Michael Greenstone, an economist at the University of Chicago, finds that even moderate social distancing will save 1.7 million lives between March 1 and October 1, according to disease-spread models done at Imperial College London. Avoiding those deaths translates into a benefit of around $8 trillion to the economy, or about one-third of the US GDP, he estimates, on the basis of a widely accepted economic measure, the “value of a statistical life.” And if the outbreak is less severe than predicted by the Imperial College work, Greenstone predicts, social distancing could still save some $3.6 trillion. > > “Our choice is not whether we intervene or whether we go back to the normal economy,” says Emil Verner, an economist at MIT’s Sloan School who has recently looked at the flu pandemic of 1918 for insights into today’s outbreak. “Our choice is whether we intervene—and the economy will be really bad now and will be better in the future—versus doing nothing and the pandemic goes out of control and really destroys the economy.” > > Overall, Verner and his coauthors found that the 1918 pandemic reduced national manufacturing output in the US by 18%; but cities that implemented restrictions earlier and for longer had much better economic outcomes in the year after the outbreak. > [@](#): > > One day we will have to reopen the economy. Perhaps we’ll be able to hold out until the pandemic is showing signs of receding, or perhaps the economic suffering will prove intolerable both to those in charge and to those living in hard-hit regions. When that day comes, if we do not have widespread testing, we will be sending people back to work without knowing if they’re at risk of getting the virus or spreading it to others. “We’re thinking about this the wrong way,” Romer says. The idea that one day you will be able to restart the economy without massive testing to see if the outbreak is under control is just “magical thinking.” > > It could be a gradual process—those who are found to be free of infection or immune might be allowed back first. But without testing we won’t know how to manage this transition. In that case we will in fact be left with the Trumpian choice: between salvaging the economy and risking countless deaths. One thing is clear to me: All should be demanding to Trump and his henchmen to get testing available to all Americans, sooner rather than later. The current testing situation remains a scandal. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/108 "2020-04-12T05:18:27Z")
I guess time will tell and most likley these decisions will be based on the random testing that should be well under way in a few weeks. My money would be on a plan the resembles my suggestion and I think it would also save lives not cost lives. The resources would be targeted toward those who were of higher risk. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/109 "2020-04-12T05:29:36Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I guess time will tell and most likley these decisions will be based on the random testing that should be well under way in a few weeks. My money would be on a plan the resembles my suggestion and I think it would also save lives not cost lives. The resources would be targeted toward those who were of higher risk. My money is in history and science, as pointed already: “Verner and his coauthors found that the 1918 pandemic reduced national manufacturing output in the US by 18%; but cities that implemented restrictions earlier and for longer had much better economic outcomes in the year after the outbreak”. Your suggestion so far is underwhelming when confronted with history and medical science. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/110 "2020-04-12T11:50:10Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > those in low risk go back to work and go about your business still practicing social distancing. I would still cancel large gatherings, subways and things like that for the time being. So then mr governor, how do the people you’ve sent back to work get there if the subways are shut down? ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/111 "2020-04-12T13:31:20Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > So then mr governor, how do the people you’ve sent back to work get there if the subways are shut down? That would depend a lot on the antibody tests that are going to be conducted starting very soon. If the infection rate is much higher than we knew about I would open the subways back up also advising that only low risk groups use them. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/112 "2020-04-12T13:44:43Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > That would depend a lot on the antibody tests that are going to be conducted starting very soon. Ahhh, the elusive “test”. First there were antigen tests where “anyone who wants one can get it”. Nobody I know ever saw one of those unless you just returned from Wuhan with bat soup stains on your shirt, a fever, and a dry cough. And now, an antibody test “starting very soon”. Hehe. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/113 "2020-04-12T14:22:09Z")
Watching CNN this morning it sounds like they are more in agreement with what I am suggesting. More random testing, social distancing, identify risk factors and go back to work. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/114 "2020-04-12T15:03:47Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > And I’m still waiting on your report of overrun hospitals all over the world, everywhere, with receptionists and such all overcome. Then what do you call hospitals putting bed in tents on the parking lot? Renting trailers to store the dead bodies? If that doesn’t qualify as “overrun”, nothing ever will. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/115 "2020-04-12T15:26:04Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Watching CNN this morning it sounds like they are more in agreement with what I am suggesting. More random testing, social distancing, identify risk factors and go back to work. CNN and Youtube videos are NOT scientific sites nor sources of credible information. Studying such things does not give one expertise about complex medical topics. CNN’s mission is to present info that fits your biases so that you’ll watch more of them. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/116 "2020-04-12T15:41:15Z")
Likely it was a morning show with experts. Those are the general guidelines for opening things back up. I’m trying to figure out how this contradicts anything anybody in this thread has said, though. The “media” has not driven any of these responses. And to the extent any testing is mentioned, any notion that testing is where it should be or that it will within 2-3 weeks is wishful thinking or projection. Other than the President and people who repeat him, the experts (nor the media quoting them) have said we’ll have anywhere near enough testing in the next couple weeks. They do say “soon”, which could be 2 months, not 2 weeks. So, again, I’m not seeing how the “media” is driving our response. They’re doing their job - reporting - and local and state governments appear to be following the advice of medical professionals and/or the federal government. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/117 "2020-04-12T15:42:49Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > CNN and Youtube videos are NOT scientific sites nor sources of credible information. Studying such things does not give one expertise about complex medical topics. CNN’s mission is to present info that fits your biases so that you’ll watch more of them. Why aren’t the Dr’s such as yourself here and on other media sites asking the obvious questions needed to deal with this virus. The first question we need answered that will hopefully be answered soon is how many people are actually getting this virus. based on that we can have much more accurate estimates of deaths and hospitalization rates. Once that question is answered we can start dealing with the real obvious most important questions. If we have a death rate in non senior adults of less than 1% what seems to be the risk factors that are showing up in that 1%? Obesity? Diabetes? asthma? whatever?. Once we know these things we can lower death rates even more. For some reason strategies and plans of attack we are not hearing anything about because everything is so hate driven right now. This virus is loaded with identifiable markers that can be worked with, I am quite sure the experts are working on these things but why is the public purposely being kept in the dark? We both know the answer to that question. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/118 "2020-04-12T16:11:51Z")
Ooh what is the answer? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/119 "2020-04-12T18:56:17Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Since a medical expert is not convincing to you, maybe economic experts can: > > [Stop covid or save the economy? We can do both. | MIT Technology Review](https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/08/998785/stop-covid-or-save-the-economy-we-can-do-both/) > > One thing is clear to me: All should be demanding to Trump and his henchmen to get testing available to all Americans, sooner rather than later. The current testing situation remains a scandal. Yes – it’s clear that some media are reporting informed scientists and informed economists, including the data they draw upon, and other media are effectively just echoing whatever Trump says in the “briefings,” which really are just campaign rallies for the election in November. _ **It’s not hard to tell the difference** _. And then there is all the YouTube/Facebook/whatever BS. Anyone who employs a modicum of critical thinking skills can see through that, but a lot of people are just too lazy to do so. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355/120 "2020-04-12T19:31:08Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I am quite sure the experts are working on these things but why is the public purposely being kept in the dark? We both know the answer to that question. Nonsense. The public isn’t being kept in the dark. Unless you mean “the public” is satisfied with getting their information from talking heads on cable news and lack the ability to search out good information sources. In which you are sort of correct. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-is-driving-our-defensive-actions-not-science/851355.md?page=7)