# The Media Treatment of Rand Paul - Knee Jerk Reactionism by Mental Midgets **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 23, 2010, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445 "2010-05-23T08:12:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/201 "2010-05-25T01:02:13Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > I think property rights are one of our most basic rights … . Why? ---
**Author:** ![jrodefeld](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jrodefeld](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jrodefeld)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/202 "2010-05-25T01:04:05Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Well if those are the rules we have to play by, consider yourself insulted. Well, why don’t you explain why Ron Paul and Rand Paul are “stupid”? Thats what you said. Now its time for you to back it up. Being stupid and disagreeing with you are not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/203 "2010-05-25T01:04:51Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > You are implying that local government, more answerable to the people, can’t be trusted but Federal Government, overrun by special interests and lobbyists, answerable to offshore bankers should be more trusted. Don’t you see how ridiculous that is? If you believe that local government can’t be “overrun by special interests” and answerable primarily to certain powerful groups and individuals, you are much too naive to be having ANYTHING to do with economics or politics. The reason that federal government control has a valuable (limited) role to play in civil society is not because federal government is inherently any more nice or moral than anything else, but because its incentives to some extent counterbalance the incentives of other institutions, such as local government and businesses. What we as citizens need is not to put our trust in any rosy-tinged vision of any one institution as a source of benevolent and disinterested leadership, but rather to surround ourselves with various limited institutions that all provide **some** leadership and all counterbalance one another’s influences. Local governments, corporations, small businesses, state governments, unions, federal government, civic groups: you can’t really trust any of them, but if you give them all a finger in the pie, you can at least trust their mutual jealousy and greed to help keep an eye on each other’s behavior. > [@jrodefeld](#): > > Anything that works well for consumers is run by free market principles. Are you upset that you can’t get a cell phone at a decent price? Or a computer? Or a television? Of course not. Things that are run by governments and bureaucracies are in shambles. Public Schools, The DMV, Welfare programs, etc. It’s not true that anything that works well for consumers is run by free market principles, nor is it true that nothing run by governments works well. You really need to understand that we’ve all heard these exaggerated hyper-libertarian generalizations before, from other posters here as well as outside sources, several times. They weren’t true or convincing when **Liberal** was making them years ago, they weren’t true or convincing when **Sam Stone** was making them during his more hardcore anti-government phase, and they’re not true or convincing now. Just because these ideas are a big exciting revelation to you doesn’t mean that the rest of us haven’t been dragged through the same dog and pony show several times before, and had plenty of opportunities to notice the flaws in it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/204 "2010-05-25T01:07:25Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > Not sure about Rand Paul, but most libertarians oppose MANDATORY prayer in public schools, but most think the government should have no say in private school choices. > > Libertarians taking things _ **that work** _ and breaking them. You think our public school education system works? For who?. See, this is why your arguments aren’t taken seriously. Because when they start to approach actual FACTS they veer into paranoid fantasy. You classify an absnce of perfection as failure. ---
**Author:** ![jrodefeld](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jrodefeld](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jrodefeld)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/205 "2010-05-25T01:30:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Yeah, you keep making this claim and yet every time you’ve been challenged to back up your claims about Paul’s education, you haven’t been able to provide anything. Show the course work he’s completed or, at a minimum a statement from him addressing how much time he’s spent and what resources he’s used to self-educate. > > Otherwise, this claim is just part of the cult of personality. Its not a cult of personality. I like Ron Paul because he is the most well known libertarian in the country and he is consistent. As I said in the OP I have read all those works by the great Austrian economists and libertarian thinkers. That is but a drop in the pond of the work that Ron Paul has done, not to mention the books he has authored, the lectures he has given over the years and his contribution to libertarian thought. Here are Ron Paul’s qualifications: He received a Bachelor of Science degree in biology at Gettysburg College. He proceeded to earn an M.D. degree from Duke University School of Medicine. He then served as a U.S. Air Force flight surgeon during the 60s. While still a medical resident in the 1960s, Paul was influenced by Friedrich Hayek’s The Road to Serfdom, which led him to read many works of Ayn Rand and Ludwig von Mises. He personally studied under the economists Hans Sennholz and Murray Rothbard well, and credits to them his interest in the study of economics. He came to believe that what the Austrian school economists wrote was coming true on August 15, 1971, when President Richard Nixon closed the “gold window” by implementing the U.S. dollar’s complete departure from the gold standard.[9] That same day, the young physician decided to enter politics, saying later, “After that day, all money would be political money rather than money of real value. I was astounded.” He personally studied under the great Austrian economists and became a leading speaker and fellow at the Ludwig von Mises institute. Ron Paul serves on the House Foreign Affairs Committee (having been on the Western Hemisphere and the Asia and Pacific subcommittees); the Joint Economic Committee; and the Committee on Financial Services (as Ranking Member of the Domestic and International Monetary Policy, Trade and Technology subcommittee, and Vice-Chair of the Oversight and Investigations subcommittee). He frequently embarrassed Fed chairman Greenspan with his probing questions and now does the same with Ben Bernanke. Is that enough to make you admit that Ron Paul is not stupid? Rather than study economics at a university from dry textbooks, he was personally tutored by the great Austrian thinkers of the mid 20th century. I’ve linked to this before, but on [Mises.org](http://Mises.org) under the tab Literature, you will find much of the works that make up Ron Paul’s foundation for education on matters of economics. Its available for free. > [@](#): > > If your ego is bound up in Rand Paul, there’s a problem. My ego isn’t bound up anywhere. But it is an offense to criticize a learned man (or his son) knowing what I know about economics. > [@](#): > > As that’s not truthful, I’m going to have to refuse to ‘understand’ it. > And comparing Obama’s time as a professor of constitutional law and the editor of the Harvard law review to someone simply getting into a school based on legacy status and political clout of their relatives shows that you have an axe to grind against Obama. I have no axe to grind against Obama. I am simply telling the truth. What do you think, that Obama made it where he did on his own merit? He “beat the odds”, just happened to get $800 Billion dollars in campaign contributions? Talk about naive. He is smart in certain ways, but to think that he is a brilliant thinker or scholar in any capacity is ludicrous. > [@](#): > > This just demonstrates how vastly separated from reality your political worldview is. The man was a professor of constitutional law at one of the top law schools in the nation. And yet because he disagrees with Ron Paul, he must be an ignorant schmuck, in your world at least. > > To say nothing of the block of nonsense-text that you’ve just quoted, like claims that “wealth redistribution” via taxation and government spending is unconstitutional. Look, there are certain things that are so blatantly unconstitutional that no matter how broadly one interprets the Constitution, it is plain to any thinking person that they are illegal under our system. Preemptive war, warrant-less wiretapping, the health insurance mandate, taking over the auto industry, and a long list of offenses. Just because he has a shiny diploma from an elite school doesn’t mean we should ignore what is right in front of our eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/206 "2010-05-25T01:32:28Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > He said we should take a look at the poorest neighborhoods in the country. What do you see? Failing school systems, police misconduct, jails and welfare offices. . You know what else you’ll see? Roads. ---
**Author:** ![erez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@erez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erez)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/207 "2010-05-25T01:35:03Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > And health insurance… No, wait, that’s the free market. You had me going until then. What? Did you just cite one of the most regulated industries out there as your example of a “free market”? Do you realize how tax breaks on employer-sponsored insurance distorted the market? Do you know the effect of government-mandated health benefits on the rates? Did you hear about the laws regulating insurance companies’ abilities to exclude hospitals or doctors? How about the guaranteed issue laws, laws requiring insurers to limit premium differences across individuals, or laws mandating that health plans provide direct access to some specialists? How about laws preventing health insurance companies from competing across states? Fail. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/208 "2010-05-25T01:38:39Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > Look, there are certain things that are so blatantly unconstitutional that no matter how broadly one interprets the Constitution, it is plain to any thinking person that they are illegal under our system. Just because something doesn’t jibe with how **you personally** think the Constitution ought to be interpreted doesn’t mean that it’s actually unconstitutional, or even illegal. Once again, your attempts to intimidate other posters, by implying that if they only had a reasonable modicum of common sense or thoughtfulness or intelligence or intellectual curiosity they’d realize that you’re right, simply aren’t going to cut it around here. They don’t accomplish anything except to convey an impression of ludicrous smugness and arrogance. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/209 "2010-05-25T01:41:21Z")
> [@erez](#): > > How about laws preventing health insurance companies from competing across states? Fail. You mean the state laws that require health insurance to be regulated by the state in which it is sold? (I thought you guys liked state rights). Or the non-existent Federal law that prohibits it? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/210 "2010-05-25T01:43:18Z")
> [@erez](#): > > What? Did you just cite one of the most regulated industries out there as your example of a “free market”? Do you realize how tax breaks on employer-sponsored insurance distorted the market? Do you know the effect of government-mandated health benefits on the rates? Did you hear about the laws regulating insurance companies’ abilities to exclude hospitals or doctors? Yeah, yeah. Every time the market superficially appears to have failed at something, up pops a libertarian to explain why this doesn’t count as an example of market activity. It’s the No True Scotsman argument par excellence. In any case, since consumers in fully government-run healthcare systems are on average much more satisfied with their systems than we are, I don’t think you’re going to get very far arguing that government involvement is the problem. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/211 "2010-05-25T01:52:03Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > Local businesses and local governments are not to be trusted? Its not a matter of trust. Its a matter of liberty. You are implying that local government, more answerable to the people, can’t be trusted but Federal Government, overrun by special interests and lobbyists, answerable to offshore bankers should be more trusted. Don’t you see how ridiculous that is? Actually, no, I don’t see how ridiculous that is. State and local governments are more corrupt than the Federal government and they are more likely to ignore things like lynchings and intimidation. Time and time again the Federal govt has had to step in and intervene when state and local law enforcement has not done it’s job. It’s the Federal Supreme Court that has struck down local obscenity laws, or stepped in when state and local government have stepped over the line with regards to church and state issues. It’s the Federal Supreme Court that established the Miranda warnings. It’s the Federal Supreme Court that prevented local school boards from maintaining segregated schools. Same with search and seizure, wire taps, and a host of other civil liberties. I don’t know of a single instance where the Supreme Court has over-ruled a state that attempted to provide more than the Federal level of civil rights, but there are scores of cases where the Supreme Court has overruled state and local governments to guarantee more civil rights. Just what do you think Brown vs Topeka or Roe vs Wade were about? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/212 "2010-05-25T01:56:28Z")
I’m bewildered as to the sudden emphasis of Libertarians that the U. S. Constitution actually supports their stances, as it has always seemed to me that should that party ever gain sufficient power, their first goal would be to rewrite it. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/213 "2010-05-25T01:58:44Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > N > If by taking control of education away from the Federal Government and providing local control means allowing some districts to have prayer in school, it would be worth it given how dramatically the quality of education would rise in this country. k-12 education is already controlled by local school districts. Universities have much more Federal involvement. Guess which system works better? K-12 education in this country is a joke, with students lagging other industrialized countries. On the other hand, our University system attracts students from all over the world. You have no leg to stand on here, most local govts do a piss poor job. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/214 "2010-05-25T01:59:19Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > Things that are run by governments and bureaucracies are in shambles. Public Schools, The DMV, Welfare programs, etc. I had no idea the Coast Guard was in shambles. Or NASA or the NIH or CDC. I had no idea that so many water, sewer and electrical problems were about to pop up RIGHT NOW! because things that are run by governments _and_bureaucracies are in shambles. I had no idea that IBM, GE, Boeing, Pfizer and all the other companies that rely on a bureaucracy were in a shambles. Where did you get this information, and how are they keeping it out of the regular media? > [@jrodefeld](#): > > Have some faith in liberty. What if we cleaned the slate, balanced the budget and returned to a literal interpretation of the Constitution, small federal government and states rights? Then we decided if we wanted more federal control, more welfare, more warfare. My guess is no. Well, see, according to you we already had that, and we, as a country, moved away from it. If it was so great, why did we move away from it? And at what time in this country’s existence do you think we had “a literal interpretation of the Constitution, small federal government and states rights” in order to be able to return to it? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/215 "2010-05-25T02:03:49Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Yeah, yeah. Every time the market superficially appears to have failed at something, up pops a libertarian to explain why this doesn’t count as an example of market activity. It’s the No True Scotsman argument par excellence. > > In any case, since consumers in fully government-run healthcare systems are on average much more satisfied with their systems than we are, I don’t think you’re going to get very far arguing that government involvement is the problem. The United States has the most expensive health care system in the world, and has worse results than _every other industrialized country_. The United State’s also has the most private enterprise involvement in health care of any industrialized country. But somehow these clowns think that by going even further down that road we will make it better. I wish they were at least honest: “Yes, we know we are going to make things worse, but we think that having more freedom is worth a higher infant mortality rate and shorter life expectancy”. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/216 "2010-05-25T02:08:09Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > Nonsense. In the real world non of these companies would dare purposefully limit their customer base. It would be suicide. And Chik Fil A would never close on Sundays and sacrifice customers. That would be irrational, and everyone knows that people _always_ act rationally. ---
**Author:** ![erez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@erez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erez)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/217 "2010-05-25T02:10:15Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Yeah, yeah. Every time the market superficially appears to have failed at something, up pops a libertarian to explain why this doesn’t count as an example of market activity. It’s the No True Scotsman argument par excellence. Why don’t you answer this simple question: do you disagree that the health insurance industry was one of the most regulated industries out there? If you wanted to cite an example of an industry that is working to the satisfaction of many people, you could have chosen from hundreds of possibilities that are not completely crippled by the government. Yet, you prefer to talk about health insurance. Why? > [@Kimstu](#): > > In any case, since consumers in fully government-run healthcare systems are on average much more satisfied with their systems than we are, I don’t think you’re going to get very far arguing that government involvement is the problem. Thank you for mentioning this. I indeed forgot to mention the huge distorting effect of these government-run plans have on private payers. Low Medicare and Medicaid reimbursement rates cause health care providers to shift the cost to those with private insurance. Thank you for helping me to make my point. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/218 "2010-05-25T02:12:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [“I do not support eliminating all federal laws or penalties on marijuana.” - Rand Paul](http://www.randpaul2010.com/2010/02/rand-responds-to-attacks/) You are another one of these liberal “gotcha” folks trying to slime Rand Paul by pointing out what he said. ---
**Author:** ![kingbighair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/13edae/32.png) [@kingbighair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingbighair)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/219 "2010-05-25T02:18:00Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > Okay, liberal demonize business and capitalism because it is all about seeking maximum profit, right? Why on earth would any of these companies who apparently care so much about profits purposely limit its paying customers? What sense would that make? Plus, there would be a massive backlash. > > You suggest you are living in the real world? Nonsense. In the real world non of these companies would dare purposefully limit their customer base. It would be suicide. You are arguing from a philosophical standpoint, not from economics. Did you read any of those links? Or did you do the same thing you were complaining about that other people were doing and just gloss over them? If you are doing a mental exercise, you are right. No business would limit its customers because it exists in a hypercompetitive environment and would quickly fold when customers flock to the competition. That’s what the Austrian school says. But guess what? The real world is not a mental exercise. Often there are only a couple businesses in the area. If, like I posted in the other thread, the most popular club out of only a couple in the city discriminates entry based on race, where else are you going to go? And what if you live in a very racially homogeneous area, and the residents do not really mind if some other race is being discriminated against? These are very real situations. The fact that you and the people of your age group in your area are not racist does not mean society is the same. I think you will be right in 25-30 years. But we are not there yet. This is why I say you are not living in reality. In reality, racial discrimination is very prevalent. Look at the major corporations linked above that have admitted to discriminating in employment based on race. Did you see those cases all over the news? Doubtful. If these stories did not make major headlines and produced no major, effective backlash, why do you think local businesses would? How do you respond to the Denny’s and Pizza Hut cases I linked? Those were very real situations where black customers were discriminated against. Where is this huge public backlash you suggested would be inevitable? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/220 "2010-05-25T02:18:32Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > You are another one of these liberal “gotcha” folks trying to slime Rand Paul by pointing out what he said. Damn these liberal gotcha journalists and their fact-checking and accuracy! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445.md?page=12)