# The Media Treatment of Rand Paul - Knee Jerk Reactionism by Mental Midgets **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 23, 2010, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445 "2010-05-23T08:12:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/41 "2010-05-23T16:27:57Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Is Pastafarian music as much fun as Rastafarian music? Better! It’s just like reggae, only faster, with more distorted guitars, louder drums, and lots of catchy yelling! ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/42 "2010-05-23T16:28:36Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Is Pastafarian music as much fun as Rastafarian music? It’s like Salsa, but cheesier. The lyrics are nice: On the first day of solstice, my true love gave to me, A plate full of fettuccine. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/43 "2010-05-23T16:28:59Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Post 1 of 1 > > To preface this post, I know this is supposed to be another thread about Rand Paul already. However, I am going to cover slightly different topics and I want the OP to pay attention to what I am about to write: > > I’m not interested in investing 3-4 hours to go over your arguments and links and videos. I’m not interested in reading an in-depth 6000 analysis of your opinions. Judging by other’s postings, I’m not the only person who feels this way and so you’ve already lost your own debate because of the flood of crap in your OP. As someone who has libertarian leanings (although not a Libertarian), I agree with this 100%. The OP re-enforces [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12487688&postcount=13). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/44 "2010-05-23T16:29:22Z")
I was hoping for No Meatball, No Cry ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/45 "2010-05-23T16:30:18Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > I was hoping for No Meatball, No Cry 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/46 "2010-05-23T16:34:49Z")
I was going to try to construct an argument against the OP, but knowing that he read those books with a highlighter, I am sure my efforts would be futile. Plus, TLDR. Too libertarian, didn’t read. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/47 "2010-05-23T16:43:04Z")
Said I remember when we use to sit Round the cafeteria table Then Georgie would make the water boil gas flame burning through the night then we would cook spaghetti al dente of which I’ll share with you No meatball, no cry No meatball, no cry ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/48 "2010-05-23T16:43:37Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Sure, libertarians can be pro-life. I’d bet a very good percentage of them are. However, I consider it anathema to libertarianism to advocate a constitutional amendment defining life at the moment of conception. He also says that he would [fight for](http://www.randpaul2010.com/issues/a-g/abortion-2/) “each and every one” of the many ways to end abortion. > > He also supports prayer in schools. [Link.](http://www.middlesborodailynews.com/view/full_story/5661743/article-US-Senate-hopeful-Rand-Paul-visits-Middlesboro?instance=home_news_lead) > > Once again, the overwhelming evidence is that Rand Paul is just an extreme right winger, not a libertarian. As to the first item… I thought Libertarians were AGAINST government intrusion or interference. So then, is “fighting against” “each and every one” - if he is saying he would fight against abortion. If he understands libertarianism, he would simply step out of the way, because abortion is a personal choice, protected by personal freedom, and government should stay out of the way. Just getting government to define life, is an interference in our own individual right to create our own definition. It’s one thing to be pro life, in your own life. It’s another thing to make it the law and make it compulsory for everyone else. It’ all about the personal freedom that libertarians are supposedly in support of. Also, being pro-prayer in schools - fine, as LONG as the school can not make students take part. Will students be allowed to either participate or not participate as they choose? Will they be allowed to step out of the room if they please? If there is some right to pray, then there is also a right to NOT pray. For that matter, what religion or denomination is the prayer? Catholic? Some form of Protestant? Southerm Baptist? Jewish? Buddhist? What? What about some other guy who is left out for being the 'wrong" religion? How about a Hindu or Muslim student? If I was raised to think of “you” as being a heretic, I may have a problem with “your” version of a prayer. If I was an atheist, I’d have a problem with the very possible case of the teacher attempting to make me participate in any sort of prayer. A libertarian personal freedom stance would be that “I” would be free, as a student to simply walk out until the praying is over. Or, y’all could pray on your own time maybe, and thereby avoid the issue? Looked at in this way, maybe Ron Paul is not a genuine libertarian, just another right wing politician, trying to ride some imaginary gravy train because “libertarian” is a popular word right now. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/49 "2010-05-23T17:00:27Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > For that matter, what religion or denomination is the prayer? Catholic? Some form of Protestant? Southerm Baptist? Jewish? Buddhist? What? What about some other guy who is left out for being the 'wrong" religion? How about a Hindu or Muslim student? This could all lead to a clusterfuck of massive proportions. It’s not just prayer, it would open up religious education without any need for a balance presentation. Can you imagine the fights over what version of the Bible to use, how to number the 10 Commandments, whether adult baptism is required, faith vs deeds, who is really “Christian”, if blacks have the Mark of Cain, if Jews have horns, and on and on. Imagine a town that is part of a county-wide school district refusing to pay taxes that fund schools with a Methodist curriculum because they are Baptist and want to have their own schools. It’s another example of Libertarians taking things that work and breaking them. We are the most religious of the industrialized countries \*because \*of separation of church and state, not \*despite \*it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/50 "2010-05-23T17:05:37Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > As to the first item… I thought Libertarians were AGAINST government intrusion or interference. So then, is “fighting against” “each and every one” - if he is saying he would fight against abortion. If he understands libertarianism, he would simply step out of the way, because abortion is a personal choice, protected by personal freedom, and government should stay out of the way. Just getting government to define life, is an interference in our own individual right to create our own definition. It’s one thing to be pro life, in your own life. It’s another thing to make it the law and make it compulsory for everyone else. It’ all about the personal freedom that libertarians are supposedly in support of. Not quite. If someone truly believes that a fertilized human egg is a person (ie, by the legal definition of that term), then being against abortion would be no different than being against murder. Do you think libertarians should oppose laws against murder? Governments have to define what a person is. Otherwise, I can just define you as a non-person and kill you with impunity. > [@](#): > > Looked at in this way, maybe Ron Paul is not a genuine libertarian, just another right wing politician, trying to ride some imaginary gravy train because “libertarian” is a popular word right now. Or, he could be a libertarian in the same way some politicians call themselves “progressives”. Do all “progressives” agree on every issue? Even members of the Libertarian Party do not all agree with each other. And that should be no surprise. I’m not sure why there is this insistence that Rand Paul be some ideologically pure animal. He’s a politician. If he were ideologically pure, he’d just be called an ideologue (which already happens). ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/51 "2010-05-23T17:07:24Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Said I remember when we use to sit > Round the cafeteria table > Then Georgie would make the water boil > gas flame burning through the night > then we would cook spaghetti al dente > of which I’ll share with you > > No meatball, no cry > No meatball, no cry Bra. Vo. I’ll never listen to that song the same way again. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/52 "2010-05-23T17:10:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not quite. If someone truly believes that a fertilized human egg is a person (ie, by the legal definition of that term), then being against abortion would be no different than being against murder. Do you think libertarians should oppose laws against murder? Governments have to define what a person is. Otherwise, I can just define you as a non-person and kill you with I support access to abortion, but you are completely right. Libertarians have a legitimate position both ways. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/53 "2010-05-23T17:18:52Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > This could all lead to a clusterfuck of massive proportions. It’s not just prayer, it would open up religious education without any need for a balance presentation. Can you imagine the fights over what version of the Bible to use, how to number the 10 Commandments, whether adult baptism is required, faith vs deeds, who is really “Christian”, if blacks have the Mark of Cain, if Jews have horns, and on and on. Imagine a town that is part of a county-wide school district refusing to pay taxes that fund schools with a Methodist curriculum because they are Baptist and want to have their own schools. > > It’s another example of Libertarians taking things that work and breaking them. We are the most religious of the industrialized countries \*because \*of separation of church and state, not \*despite \*it. While I don’t favop prayer in public schools, one should note that Prayer was allowed in public schools until the 1960s. Did the US become a super power with a broken school system? [Note that](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_in_school)"_In England and Wales, the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 states that all pupils in state schools must take part in a daily act of collective worship, unless their parents request that they be excused from attending.[3] The majority of these acts of collective worship are required to be “wholly or mainly of a broadly Christian character”"._ Now, the same article goes on to say that “80% of secondary schools are not providing daily worship for all pupils.” The percentage would probably be different in the US, but it wouldn’t be “breaking” anything to allow local jurisdictions to decide this issue. We might become like :eek: [Canada](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_in_school#Canada) (pre-1996). They not only allowed prayer, it was mandated. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/54 "2010-05-23T17:23:44Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Bra. Vo. > > I’ll never listen to that song the same way again. Won’t you help to sing dese songs of pasta dey’s all I ever had Spaghetti songs, dese songs of pasta ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/55 "2010-05-23T17:28:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Or, he could be a libertarian in the same way some politicians call themselves “progressives”. Do all “progressives” agree on every issue? If someone called themselves a progressive, and advocated a large military, cutting taxes on rich people, eliminating Social Security, and banning abortions, one can legitimately say, “Whoa! Sounds like you are a conservative.” Rand Paul apparently does not claim he is a libertarian… at least, I can’t find anything to that effect. Other people, particularly Ron Paul supporters, seem to want to call him a libertarian. I look through his positions, and he just seems to be a right-wing conservative on virtually every political issue, with the two exceptions of supporting medical marijuana (but apparently not drug legalization) and favoring withdrawal from Iraq. I would say the first isn’t really a libertarian position anyway. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/56 "2010-05-23T17:51:09Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > This could all lead to a clusterfuck of massive proportions. It’s not just prayer, it would open up religious education without any need for a balance presentation. Can you imagine the fights over what version of the Bible to use, how to number the 10 Commandments, whether adult baptism is required, faith vs deeds, who is really “Christian”, if blacks have the Mark of Cain, if Jews have horns, and on and on. Imagine a town that is part of a county-wide school district refusing to pay taxes that fund schools with a Methodist curriculum because they are Baptist and want to have their own schools. It sure would be an interesting experiment, wouldn’t it? Which “faith” would be The One? Whose beliefs (or lack) would get the seal of approval? > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not quite. If someone truly believes that a fertilized human egg is a person (ie, by the legal definition of that term), then being against abortion would be no different than being against murder. Do you think libertarians should oppose laws against murder? Are we talking about ALL fertilized eggs? Does that include those whose gestation will kill the mother, and those that could never survive once delivered? Those that are so badly defective that there will never be any hope for them? For that matter, why does this hypothetical person consider a JUST NOW fertilzied egg to be completely human? It’s all based on his own religious or philosophical reasons. So he then is promoting his religion or philosophy. Which is fine, but it’s no more or less worthy of consideration than someone else’s. As for murder, that is a whole different thing, and if this person says they are the same, then what gives him the right or authority to make his view the official law, over yours or mine? What is the logic supporting his view? What is the science and the proof of it? Too often in the past, it has turned into a “the Bible says so” or “God says”, and that doesn’t work on me anymore - after all, there are passages in that same Book that roughly translate into “sit down, shut up, and tend to your own business”. Of course, if he is elected, he is being given that authority by The Majority Of The People (which is how it’s supposed to work even when I disagree and bitch about it). > [@Ravenman](#): > > If someone called themselves a progressive, and advocated a large military, cutting taxes on rich people, eliminating Social Security, and banning abortions, one can legitimately say, “Whoa! Sounds like you are a conservative.” I agree with Ravenman. These are more of a right wing conservative mindset than anything else. But right now though, I am getting more and more confused about which Mister Paul we really are talking about, and what he really believes. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/57 "2010-05-23T17:53:10Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If someone called themselves a progressive, and advocated a large military, cutting taxes on rich people, eliminating Social Security, and banning abortions, one can legitimately say, “Whoa! Sounds like you are a conservative.” I’m not seeing the analogy. If I look at his positions, they seem pretty well aligned with a libertarian viewpoint. Not 100%, but pretty close. > [@](#): > > Rand Paul apparently does not claim he is a libertarian… at least, I can’t find anything to that effect. Other people, particularly Ron Paul supporters, seem to want to call him a libertarian. I look through his positions, and he just seems to be a right-wing conservative on virtually every political issue, with the two exceptions of supporting medical marijuana (but apparently not drug legalization) and favoring withdrawal from Iraq. I would say the first isn’t really a libertarian position anyway. Wikipedia says he describes himself as a “constitutional conservative”. I think that has a pretty broad overlap with the libertarian agenda. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/58 "2010-05-23T18:05:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > While I don’t favop prayer in public schools, one should note that Prayer was allowed in public schools until the 1960s. Did the US become a super power with a broken school system? Well, the parochial school system is the direct result of disagreements over what Bible to use in school. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/59 "2010-05-23T18:08:58Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Well, the parochial school system is the direct result of disagreements over what Bible to use in school. As I get older, the answer becomes simpler - use the biggest, most massive one, because they have the largest print font. The vision here is getting worse and worse 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/60 "2010-05-23T18:12:57Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > As I get older, the answer becomes simpler - use the biggest, most massive one, because they have the largest print font. The vision here is getting worse and worse 😃 🙂 Me too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445.md?page=4)