# The Media Treatment of Rand Paul - Knee Jerk Reactionism by Mental Midgets **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 23, 2010, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445 "2010-05-23T08:12:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/101 "2010-05-23T22:45:31Z")
You aren’t doing your side many favors when you whine about Obama’s “czars”. Do you realize that the term is a media creation and not part of anyone’s official title? No, didn’t think so. Seeking justices with empathy is not unconstitutional. Neither is the belief that the Constitution is a living document. You’re mistaken in that people disagree with you out of ignorance about libertarianism. We disagree because we know enough about libertarianism to reject it. I don’t have to read a book about homeopathy to know it is junk science. Neither do I have to read what you suggest in order to reject the cult of libertarianism. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/102 "2010-05-23T22:51:44Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Really? You don’t think prices were set by the market back when farmers went to town to sell their goods? I think that in Feudal times, workers generally made things for their lord, who took it and doled it back to them as he felt proper. Perhaps a minimum of items would be left to the workers to trade in town, but this was a minority of all things produced. The lord might have then taken the items and traded them about, but often more often on the basis of connections and title than out of market needs and reciprocity. Either that or you were simply a subsistence farmer, at which point trade is basically for the sake of getting some variety, not because anyone else has more than you. A cash-based economy existed principally among traders, who were looked down upon as the scum of the Earth. > **[Serfdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serf)** > > Serfdom was the status of many peasants under feudalism, specifically relating to manorialism and similar systems. It was a condition of debt bondage and indentured servitude with similarities to and differences from slavery. It developed during late antiquity and the Early Middle Ages in Europe and lasted in some countries until the mid-19th century. > Unlike slaves, serfs could not be bought, sold, or traded individually, though they could, depending on the area, be sold together with land. A... ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/103 "2010-05-23T22:54:31Z")
But does he support the War of 1812? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/104 "2010-05-23T22:55:38Z")
Just FYI, by the way, it is not customary to append a byline to a new thread. Merely writing “The Media Treatment of Rand Paul - Knee Jerk Reactionism” would have been sufficient, though “Mental Midgets” IS a great user name for the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_Fevah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Dante\_Fevah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_Fevah)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/105 "2010-05-23T23:03:51Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > the media feels the need to attack anyone who they feel is threatening. This above quote, is where you lost me. You did not lose me with what could honestly be construed as a condescending attitude on your part, full of assumptions on what others may or may not have read, or on what others do or do not understand about, “the virtues of a society based on liberty” Not knowing you, I give you\* the benefit of the doubt \*here. It is only fair, but fairness also dictates that I mention to you, what struck me about your attitude and your basic assumptions, as being condescending. If I am to believe the media feels threatened, which I do not, I would have to buy into several paranoid and unrealistic fantasies about what constitutes _‘the media.’_ I do not. You obviously put a lot of time, thought, and effort into his. And for that you deserve some credit and respect. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/106 "2010-05-23T23:04:51Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I think that in Feudal times, workers generally made things for their lord, who took it and doled it back to them as he felt proper. Perhaps a minimum of items would be left to the workers to trade in town, but this was a minority of all things produced. The lord might have then taken the items and traded them about, but often more often on the basis of connections and title than out of market needs and reciprocity. > > Either that or you were simply a subsistence farmer, at which point trade is basically for the sake of getting some variety, not because anyone else has more than you. > > A cash-based economy existed principally among traders, who were looked down upon as the scum of the Earth. > > [Serfdom - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serf) Why are you picking that particular time period? Trade has flourished for thousands of years under a number of different political systems. Nomadic tribes in the middle-east traded with each other, as did Roman and Greek merchants. Even coinage has been around for thousands of years. Hell, Jesus tossed money traders out of the temple. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_Fevah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Dante\_Fevah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_Fevah)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/107 "2010-05-23T23:10:01Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > **Page 1 of 2** > > To preface this thread,… > > … To be clear, I want to remind you that you prefaced the thread with a title demeaning to, and disrespectful of, those you disagree with, the media. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/108 "2010-05-23T23:47:48Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Why are you picking that particular time period? Trade has flourished for thousands of years under a number of different political systems. Nomadic tribes in the middle-east traded with each other, as did Roman and Greek merchants. Even coinage has been around for thousands of years. Hell, Jesus tossed money traders out of the temple. Myeah? Given that I noted the existence of traders, I’m not sure what point you think you’re raising. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/109 "2010-05-23T23:55:12Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Myeah? Given that I noted the existence of traders, I’m not sure what point you think you’re raising. Well if you ignore those people who were engaged in transactions in which supply and demand set prices, then I guess there were no examples of the invisible hand. Aside from that Mrs Lincoln, how was the play? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/110 "2010-05-24T00:02:27Z")
> [@Dante\_Fevah](#): > > To be clear, I want to remind you that you prefaced the thread with a title demeaning to, and disrespectful of, those you disagree with, the media. How dare those media meanies actually let Doctor Rand Paul speak. And then repeat what he says. It’s not fair! The OP often presents material from the Senior Doctor Paul. But there’s never a link. (I’m not counting the insufferable YouTube stuff.) When I asked about those paragraphs of bolded text, he said he’d _paraphrased_ the Senior Doctor’s words. Is there a good online source for his actual stuff? Well, his [Congressional District](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas's_14th_congressional_district) is not far from me; I’ve been aware of his antics for years. I doubt our OP is earning him any new friends. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_Fevah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Dante\_Fevah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_Fevah)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/111 "2010-05-24T00:16:24Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > How dare those media meanies actually let Doctor Rand Paul speak. And then repeat what he says. It’s not fair! > > The OP often presents material from the Senior Doctor Paul. But there’s never a link. (I’m not counting the insufferable YouTube stuff.) When I asked about those paragraphs of bolded text, he said he’d _paraphrased_ the Senior Doctor’s words. Is there a good online source for his actual stuff? > > Well, his [Congressional District](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas's_14th_congressional_district) is not far from me; I’ve been aware of his antics for years. I doubt our OP is earning him any new friends. I have always been amused by the paranoid fantasies of many who claim Libertarianism as their creed. There are many Libertarians who are not paranoid and who are well meaning in their beliefs, and who are very serious about their principles—all without paranoia … But there were also many eugenicists who were well meaning in their beliefs, and who were very serious about their principles—all without paranoia. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/112 "2010-05-24T00:54:12Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > Hayek won the Nobel Prize! I would hope he would provide some good insights. Do you honestly believe all the modern Keynesian economics? How is that working out for us? Double digit unemployment, bubble economies, speculative gambling and Wall Street ripping us off, nearly a thirteen trillion dollar national debt and a severely weakened dollar. I have snipped the rest because it is highly tendentious, factually wrong, or occasionally so misguided that it is not even wrong. Hayek wrote a very good book. In 1949. The state of the world and of the economic discipline has changed enormously since then. Perhaps you’d like to read about it. [Why I Am Not An Austrian Economist](http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/bcaplan/whyaust.htm) The failure of [Austrian Business Cycle Theory](http://johnquiggin.com/index.php/archives/2009/05/03/austrian-business-cycle-theory/) A smorgasbord of [critiques](http://web.archive.org/web/20070607080242/http://www.againstpolitics.com/austrian_economics/index.html) from real heavyweights of past and present. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/113 "2010-05-24T01:35:51Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > It infuriates me when I witness the son of the most brilliant economist, philosopher and libertarian thinker in the country being tarnished and relentlessly attacked by people who possess less than a fraction of the intellect of he and his father, seeing as their beliefs come from a tradition of scholarly study, lifetimes absorbed in economic literature, with a lineage that includes brilliant economists, learned historians, and majors in constitutional law (not to mention the Founders, those that actually wrote the Constitution). This is what confuses me about Libertarians: they pretend to be intellectually superior while making claims that are nothing more than juvenile fantasies of how the world should work without a basic reality check. That whole rant sounds like someone with a raging case of blind hero worship and not anything like a reasoned or realistic assessment. > [@jrodefeld](#): > > To top it off, many on the mainstream left adopt a posture of undeserved accomplishment and elitist self aggrandizement which flies in the face of the ignorance that spews forth constantly from these pampered arrogant tools we foolishly charge with “informing” the public. Pot meet kettle… > [@jrodefeld](#): > > There is a notion developing from some on the left that Rand Paul is now somehow on par with Sarah Palin in intellect, playing as it is on the media created narrative that portrays Tea Partiers, Libertarians, and those who protest excessive spending and debt as backwards and unsophisticated. Nothing could be further from the truth. Rand Paul _wishes_ he were on par with Sarah Palin in intellect. Even good ol’ goin’ rogue Palin wouldn’t say the kinds of aggressively stupid things Rand on Ron Paul regularly come up with. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/114 "2010-05-24T01:40:27Z")
For what it’s worth, I also agree with substantially nothing Bryan Caplan does. But I _still_ think he is quite on point in his essay I linked, if entirely too charitable. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/115 "2010-05-24T02:13:58Z")
You can actually get more thought-provoking analysis of Paul from non-mainstream media, such as [_The Nation._](http://www.thenation.com/blog/what-happens-when-serious-libertarian-gets-serious-attention) > [@](#): > > Rand Paul has made a point in this campaign year of suggesting that he differs with his dad on some key issues; but the fact is that the younger Paul’s Senate run was managed and funded by many backers of the father. They are dedicated, true-believer libertarians who have accepted, as the Paul’s have, that there is more room to maneuver in the Republican Party than on the third-party fringe. > > The problem, of course, is that there is a reason why the Libertarian Party has remained on the fringe. > > Yes, it has suffered as a result of the same unfair ballot-access laws and debate designs that have afflicted other third parties. But it also entertains ideas that that are outside the mainstream. > > The libertarian ideology may have its day. But that day has not yet come. > > For now, serious libertarians are ideological outliers – committed to their views and sincere in their approach but outliers all the same. > > And when an outlier enters the mainstream, fireworks ensue. > > That’s the bottom line with regard to Rand Paul: Try as he may to steer toward the center, that’s not where his heart or head is. And, as a result, he will keep saying things that send shockwaves through the political mainstream. > > That may be a good thing, in that it forces deeper and broader debates. But it is going to cause a lot of headaches for Rand Paul and his adopted Republican Party. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/116 "2010-05-24T03:15:22Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > **Page 1 of 2** > > To preface this thread,… Holy Cow. And I thought Atlas Shrugged was long boring and irrelevant. > [@](#): > > I have read extensively from economic literature, history, and constitutional law. How many of you can say the same? I’ve got a degree in law and economics and I’m gonna guess that there are a lot of folks on this board that can talk circles around me on those two topics without any formal training in those areas. I like Libertarians better than Republicans. They are internally consistent and their philosophy works really well as long as everyone else thinks like them. They also really believe in what they are saying. Republicans on the other hand adopt libertarian catch phrases when libertarian philosophies support their positiona dn abandon them when they don’t. Rand Paul is light years smarter than Palin and a lot more intellectually honest. it doesn’t make Libertarianism any less crazy (or any more racist). If Rand Paul (and Ron Paul for that matter) gets pilloried it should be because they are batsh!t crazy. Here’s one problem with Rand Pauls response in the interview. The South would have been perfectly happy to continue to practice segregation even if it wasn’t required by law, these businesses did fine for a century without any black (or integrationist) customers, I reckon they would have continued to do so. Segregation would exist today in large swatches of the South if the federal government hadn’t stepped in and told private parties to knock it off. If Woolworths was segregated, Libertarians might not have eaten at their lunch counter but there are a whole group of people that wouldn’t have eaten anywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/117 "2010-05-24T03:18:15Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Rand Paul is not a very good libertarian. > > One can defend his views of the Federal government having no place in regulating businesses, but he supports Federal laws to outlaw abortion. A libertarian that recognizes the rights of the child could support restrictions on abortion. > [@](#): > > He’s not a libertarian, he’s just on the fringe of the right-wing. A lot of Libertarians live there. > [@](#): > > I, too, question why everyone who disagrees with you must be considered ignorant, uneducated or stupid. Sometimes people just disagree. Or lying. I ran into that attitude on another thread, its not very persuasive. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/118 "2010-05-24T03:29:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Explain how a boycott will eradicate segregation in the real estate market better than the Fair Housing Act of 1968. Some people want to live in all white neighborhoods, so they will be attracted to houses in areas that do not permit non-whites. Some people don’t care about segregation, but they are attracted by the prices that are lower because non-whites cannot make offers. That doesn’t seem to be the direction home prices took when neighborhoods became integrated. In some places white people had money and black people didn’t and you didn’t really care about losing the black customer as much as you were about lsoing the racist white customer. > [@](#): > > Segregated housing was against the self-interest of the sellers because it presumably depressed prices by excluding buyers, yet it persisted for over a century after slaves were freed. Why didn’t the market correct itself? I’m not so sure it would depress prices. Also, back then there were real estate laws that allowed you to prevent your neighbor from selling to blacks. In other cases developers would include the restriction on the deeds in a new development so that white people (who could frequently pay more) would move in. These were private contracts and gosh darn it if people would only respect the right to contract, then these racist neighborhoods in the south would have withered on their own because Libertarians would not have bought those houses. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/119 "2010-05-24T03:31:01Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > So why should we trust you on your grasp of unproven sweeping economic ideas that seem counter-intuitive of what we already know of how human beings behave? Well because human beings are behaving incorrectly, if they read Mises and Hayek, then they would all evolve into homo-economicus and we would all be John Galt. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445/120 "2010-05-24T03:42:11Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Sounds nice in theory, but it’s only theory. Its not even nice in theory when you can’t identify HOW you would balance the budget. I spend a lot more time than most staring at the budget trying to figure out if we will be able to close the gap before inflation kicks in but until I start seeing people who promote death panels (cutting medicare benefits) and raising taxes I don’t see how we are ever going to balance the budget over the long term (any idea how much it would cost to fully fund the present value of our medicare liabilities, this bailout is frikking peanuts). > [@](#): > > Was it Jefferson, or someone else, who wanted no foreign entanglements? It was Washington, the greatest leader who ever lived because he could have been king and chose not to. > [@](#): > > No biggy. If Ron Paul really is about the above things, all well and good. But, he will need to start articulating it better, more often, and more loudly. He also needs to think more carefully when he gets a loaded question, as the question posed by Rachel Maddow may have been. Because quite simply, the free (totally free and unfettered/unregulated) marketplace is not the answer to everything. Its hard for Ron (or rand) because they have crazy in the genes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-media-treatment-of-rand-paul-knee-jerk-reactionism-by-mental-midgets/540445.md?page=7)