The Media Treatment of Rand Paul - Knee Jerk Reactionism by Mental Midgets

Yeah, you keep making this claim and yet every time you’ve been challenged to back up your claims about Paul’s education, you haven’t been able to provide anything. Show the course work he’s completed or, at a minimum a statement from him addressing how much time he’s spent and what resources he’s used to self-educate.

Otherwise, this claim is just part of the cult of personality.

If your ego is bound up in Rand Paul, there’s a problem.

As that’s not truthful, I’m going to have to refuse to ‘understand’ it.
And comparing Obama’s time as a professor of constitutional law and the editor of the Harvard law review to someone simply getting into a school based on legacy status and political clout of their relatives shows that you have an axe to grind against Obama.

This just demonstrates how vastly separated from reality your political worldview is. The man was a professor of constitutional law at one of the top law schools in the nation. And yet because he disagrees with Ron Paul, he must be an ignorant schmuck, in your world at least.

To say nothing of the block of nonsense-text that you’ve just quoted, like claims that “wealth redistribution” via taxation and government spending is unconstitutional.

Again, this shows that your worldview is totally divorced from reality. Ron Paul, who isn’t a constitutional scholar but has a dogmatic view of the constitution that you accept as gospel truth, is an authority according to you. And an actual constitutional scholar like Obama suddenly isn’t, since he disagrees with Paul.
When the veracity of a claim is determined by “does Paul agree?”, it’s pretty clear that we’re dealing with a cult of personality.

Wrong.

This seems like a very narrow reading list. Knowing a particular view of the world very very well doesn’t make you more well-informed than others, regardless that you have read a greater word count than they.

Hayek won the Nobel Prize! I would hope he would provide some good insights. Do you honestly believe all the modern Keynesian economics? How is that working out for us? Double digit unemployment, bubble economies, speculative gambling and Wall Street ripping us off, nearly a thirteen trillion dollar national debt and a severely weakened dollar.

Plus, Mises correctly predicted the Great Depression in the mid twenties when no one else did. By the same token, Peter Schiff and Ron Paul, modern day proponents of Austrian Economics, correctly predicted this crises when very few others did.

This is what Ron Paul wrote:

*As Paul saw the situation some five years ago, the government backing isolated GSE management from market discipline. If Fannie and Freddie were not underwritten by the federal government, he told the committee, investors would demand the institutions held to higher management and accounting practices.

“Ironically, by transferring the risk of a widespread mortgage default, the government increases the likelihood of a painful crash in the housing market,” Paul predicted. “This is because the special privileges granted to Fannie and Freddie have distorted the housing market by allowing them to attract capital they could not attract under pure market conditions. As a result, capital is diverted from its most productive use into housing. This reduces the efficacy of the entire market and thus reduces the standard of living of all Americans.

“Despite the long-term damage to the economy inflicted by the government’s interference in the housing market, the government’s policy of diverting capital to other uses creates a short-term boom in housing,” Paul went on. “Like all artificially created bubbles, the boom in housing prices cannot last forever. When housing prices fall, homeowners will experience difficulty as their equity is wiped out. Furthermore, the holders of the mortgage debt will also have a loss. These losses will be greater than they would have otherwise been had government policy not actively encouraged over-investment in housing."*

Spot on. Also, as much as FinnAgain hates it when I post youtube videos, please watch this video of Peter Schiff getting laughed at for being right in 2005-2007:

Mainstream economic thought has failed us.

A central tenet which allows Austrian economists to predict the cycles of booms and busts is the Austrian Theory of the Business Cycle. From Wikipedia:

**The Austrian business cycle theory (“ABCT”) attempts to explain business cycles through a set of ideas held by the heterodox Austrian School of economics. The theory views business cycles (or, as some Austrians prefer, “credit cycles”) as the inevitable consequence of excessive growth in bank credit, exacerbated by inherently damaging and ineffective central bank policies, which cause interest rates to remain too low for too long, resulting in excessive credit creation, speculative economic bubbles and lowered savings.[1]

Austrians believe that a sustained period of low interest rates and excessive credit creation results in a volatile and unstable imbalance between saving and investment.[2] According to the theory, the business cycle unfolds in the following way: Low interest rates tend to stimulate borrowing from the banking system. This expansion of credit causes an expansion of the supply of money, through the money creation process in a fractional reserve banking system. It is asserted that this leads to an unsustainable credit-sourced boom during which the artificially stimulated borrowing seeks out diminishing investment opportunities. Though disputed, proponents hold that a credit-sourced boom results in widespread malinvestments. In the theory, a correction or “credit crunch” – commonly called a “recession” or “bust” – occurs when exponential credit creation cannot be sustained. Then the money supply suddenly and sharply contracts when markets finally “clear”, causing resources to be reallocated back towards more efficient uses.

Given these perceived damaging and disruptive effects caused by what Austrian scholars believe to be volatile and unsustainable growth in credit-sourced money, many proponents (such as Murray Rothbard) advocate either heavy regulation of the banking system (strictly enforcing a policy of full reserves on the banks) or, more often, free banking.[3] The main proponents of the Austrian business cycle theory historically were Ludwig von Mises and Friedrich Hayek. Hayek won a Nobel Prize in economics in 1974 (shared with Gunnar Myrdal) in part for his work on this theory.[4][5]**
Its pretty clear to me that when a central bank artificially lowers interest rates, encourages malinvestment and misallocation of credit, it distorts the free market and results in an unsustainable boom period. Inevitably this results in a bust causing much pain and hardship.

Furthermore, it fools people into thinking they have savings when in fact they have none. The signals of the free market are important because supply and demand and free people engaging in mutually beneficial economic activity drive growth though savings and production. That is, producing things that there is a demand for and investing in said productive capacity through savings and reserves as opposed to fiat money printed from a government printing press.

The worst thing that Keynesian economics produces over time is expansion of governmental power and exploding deficits given the opportunity to simply monetize debt. And the dollar perpetually loses value because there is no oversight of the Federal Reserve and no restraint on the printing press.

Not sure what qualifies the only economic philosophy that got it right “bad economics” in your eyes but perhaps you can elaborate.

You’re missing my point. This is already a moderated message board. You say you want a “reasonably civil and intellectual debate”, and ask for posters to constrain themselves above and beyond the board’s normal rules. Yet, within the restricive framework you suggest, you extoll the virtues of a world with few restrictions. You ask that a racist lunch-counter owner be allowed to expose himself for who he is, so that the enlightened masses me see him and shun him. So why not conduct this debate by the same rules? Let the name-callers show their true colors, so that they may be there for all to see.

Surely this debate would be even more productive on some other message board, with no limitations on speech, sock puppets, etc. Your critics would be out in the open for all to see, your wisdom would shine through like a beacon, and the masses would rally to your cause.

Wrong.

I don’t see him as a hawk either, but I don’t see what his father’s position on the issue has to do with it.

You do know that Keynesian economics also predicts business cycles?

If he is/was against the Patriot Act, and if he is/was against “wars of empire” (not a hawk), those are things in his favor I think. What his father thinks, is irrelevant. Pops Paul isn’t running for office, the Younger Paul is.

The OP’s argument boils down to something bad happened under our current system, so if we try this totally different system everything will be better, and no it’s never been done before, but trust me it’ll be great.

Your OP is rhetorical Tourettes. You need to focus on the main points of the debate, and keep your points concise if you wish to be taken seriously in conversations about political philosophies. Backing up and releasing a creaky, overloaded dump truck of talking points in the apparent hope it will make the mocking naysayers flee the premises like terrified natives fleeing the Mighty Kong is kind of a silly expectation, but then again Libertarians are noted for those.

The LaRouchies, supporters of the aging Lyndon LaRouche have been doing this a lot better a lot longer. Hayak got a Nobel Prize for writing a comic book of economics denouncing inflation. Krugman more recently got a Nobel Prize. He denounces Libertarianism. Here are some of his blog pieces. We all know that Libtards won’t bother to agree with them.

http://blog.santafe.edu/?p=150

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/why-libertarianism-doesnt-work-part-n1/

http://blog.santafe.edu/?p=150

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/28/leverage-for-real/

http://select.nytimes.com/2007/03/02/opinion/02krugman.html?_r=1

The Austrian school is full of apologists for raping the environment, encouraging the idea of litigation (but not real litigation) and allowing racism to run rampant because the magic hand of the market will correct all that trivial stuff. Well bullshit. The invisible hand has been functioning since the dawn of civilization (supposedly) and racism isn’t gone and isn’t going away. It is correctly legislated against.

No they don’t. If I let the poor starve because I refuse to feed them that isn’t murder. If I refuse to provide life support for a fetus, that isn’t murder.

The invisible hand has only been working since about 1800 and racism has significantly decreased in that time period.

Wrong.

Of course, if you want to argue that their authority DOES have legal force, you can certainly legitimately attempt to. But the way you’re expressing this makes you look like you’re arguing that their very existence is unconstitutional. There is significant disagreement on that.

(I won’t even get into Bush or past Presidents doing this, because as a self-proclaimed libertarian, you probably aren’t interested.)

This czar nonsense is one of the stupidest criticisms of Obama. Whether something is constitutional or not does not depend on whether the press decides to informally call the czars. It makes anyone objecting to it look foolish.

So Adam Smith “created” the invisible hand? I thought he just described it. Was there gravity before Newton, or did things just float around? Maybe that explains how dinosaurs could be so big.

I think it’s fair to say that the “invisible hand” was tolerated in in a limited fashion until Adam Smith convinced enough people that it should be encouraged and not discouraged. And even then, the acceptance was still spotty. Allowing prices and wages to be set by the market and working towards lower (or no) tariffs are all relatively modern ideas that would have seemed crazy to people in earlier times.

Really? You don’t think prices were set by the market back when farmers went to town to sell their goods?

No. It’s impossible to sing along or dance to all that infernal noodling.

Capitalism more-or-less came about on its own, but that wasn’t until practically Adam Smith’s time. Prior to that, mercantilism was the order of the day. Besides the government not treating economics as a zero-sum game, the open market also presumes a few ground rules:

  1. Private ownership
  2. Loans
  3. Corporations

Loans were more-or-less forbidden until the mid-16th century in Europe, only the nobility truly owned anything, the assembly of peasants was viewed as dangerous, and becoming wealthy was viewed as the quickest course to Hell.

He probably used a whole set of highlighters, for color-coding.