# "The Men Who Stare at Goats" \[some open spoilers\]

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538>\
**Category:** Cafe Society\
**Created:** [October 20, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538 "2009-10-20T23:15:23Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\
**Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/21 "2009-11-08T00:09:38Z")

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Thanks \*\*twickster \*\*and **enalzi**.

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**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\
**Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/22 "2009-11-08T00:35:28Z")

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> [@twickster](#):
>
> George Clooney does batshit insane really entertainingly, and Ewan McGregor is perfect as his foil.

Would you go so far as to say that Ewan McGregor is perfect as his tin-foil? (hat that is) 😃

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**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\
**Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/23 "2009-11-08T00:35:41Z")

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Must…see…this…film…

(Is Ewan shirtless, or better yet, does he show “Not-So-Little Ewan?”)

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**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\
**Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/24 "2009-11-08T02:11:49Z")

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> [@SenorBeef](#):
>
> No, I’m saying it should’ve played it one way or another. Whether or not there actually are psychic powers in this film’s universe is pretty relevant to the plot, and yet they gave conflicting ideas with this one. If they actually do have some sort of paranormal powers, it certainly changes the tone entirely from the book it’s derived from.

My take on the movie was that nothing that happened came out of actual psychic powers, so I didn’t experience the conflict that you did. **shrug**

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**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\
**Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/25 "2009-11-08T07:58:30Z")

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> [@SenorBeef](#):
>
> No, I’m saying it should’ve played it one way or another. Whether or not there actually are psychic powers in this film’s universe is pretty relevant to the plot, and yet they gave conflicting ideas with this one.

I think it’s pretty consistent with the real life situation, being that while there are some proponents of supernatural things, for the most part they are hard to document, but occasionally weird or amazing shit happens, for which the believers will claim it’s confirmation and the skeptics will claim it’s coincidence or hoax or something interesting but explainable.

I thought the movie _should_ straddle the line but actually went a little bit too far into the ‘it’s real’ category especially given that it’s loosely based on a real story. Which begs the question of how the specific examples played out in real life. Though the movie is a bit of a roast too. Probably comes down to ‘yes some of the soldiers had some minor out of the ordinary talents, however their explanation for it was mired in a bullshit mythos’.

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**Author:** ![Hallucinex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba9def/32.png) [@Hallucinex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hallucinex)\
**Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/26 "2009-11-09T11:10:21Z")

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> [@jackdavinci](#):
>
> Which begs the question of how the specific examples played out in real life.

It’s been a while since I read the book, and someone can correct me on this, but I remember the actual “goat-staring” experiment sounded like it went more along the lines of (spoilered -mentions what happens in the film):

[SPOILER]In the movie, you have Clooney just stare at the one goat he’s sitting in front of, and it falls over (implied dead) soon after.

In the book, I think it was more something like they had a bunch of numbered goats, and the guy was meant to concentrate on killing one particular number (may or may not have been able to see the goats at the time?) - and eventually one goat fell over (can’t remember if it actually died) - but not the one he was aiming for (collateral damage, presumably).

I was slightly bugged that they made the goat-staring seem like such an obvious success in the film, but more so that the real story could have been played as a much more enjoyable scene (while still being able to seem like a success to the characters involved).[/SPOILER]

But maybe in the movie we’re seeing the past scenes as one character describes them, exaggerations and all (or as the McGregor character interprets them), rather than in the book where we get a picture built up over the course of Ronson investigating various people’s accounts of what had happened.

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**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\
**Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/27 "2009-11-09T14:22:43Z")

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> [@Hallucinex](#):
>
> But maybe in the movie we’re seeing the past scenes as one character describes them, exaggerations and all (or as the McGregor character interprets them), rather than in the book where we get a picture built up over the course of Ronson investigating various people’s accounts of what had happened.

Good point. Huge chunks of this are told by the George Clooney character, who, we’re led to believe, might not be the most reliable of narrators.

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**Author:** ![want2know](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@want2know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/want2know)\
**Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/28 "2009-11-10T17:26:46Z")

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Good movie, not great. I agree with **twickster** about the abrupt transition, and I felt the payoff of the film was a bit disappointing. Still, worth the viewing.

Also got a kick out of Clooney explaining to MacGregor “the way of the Jedi”.

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**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\
**Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/29 "2009-11-10T17:45:59Z")

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I just saw it yesterday. Great movie, although I’m not crazy about the very last scene, but then, I don’t know how I’d change it.

And since this is open spoilers, Clooney having cancer seemed to come out of nowhere, and then disappear back into nowhere. About the only effect I can think of is that it makes you feel a little better about his possible helicopter crash since he said he was dying anyway.

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**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\
**Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/30 "2009-11-10T17:53:05Z")

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> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> Must…see…this…film…
> 
> (Is Ewan shirtless, or better yet, does he show “Not-So-Little Ewan?”)

Unfortunately not…though you do see both of their butts from a distance\*, and Ewan’s midriff and pleasure trail (not close up) at one point.  
\*I have to ass-ume these guys did their own butt work.

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**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\
**Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/31 "2009-11-10T21:22:50Z")

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I read and enjoyed the book, but I’m surprised to find I’m not that interested in the movie version, for the following reasons:

1. It’s a non-fiction book that explores a diffuse subject, but the film seems to be a straight narrative tale. That approach is often problematic; for example, it’s often very difficult to develop a satisfactory ending (if you’ve seen the Charlie Kaufman’s _Adaptation_–a film which creatively spoofs this very point–you’ll understand what I mean). My guess is that the film won’t really have a third act and lose it’s oomph in the final half hour, which for me would be disappointing.

2. The book initially treated the claims of the First Earth brigade and the various paranormal experiments with a kind of detatched humor. But eventually these ideas led to some dark/chilling places. The trailers, by contrast, make this look like a flat-out comedy, which (for me) misses the sardonic point of the book: The potential evil caused by silly people who are permitted to take themselves too seriously. IMO if the screenplay is going to be a military farce it ought to be closer to, say, “Catch 22” than “M_A_S\*H”; again, I’d be disappointed if it were the latter.

So I’m probably not going to see it, but I would be interested in responses to these points from those who did see it.

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**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\
**Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/32 "2009-11-11T10:00:09Z")

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I haven’t read the book, but having seen the film:

> [@CJJ](#):
>
> My guess is that the film won’t really have a third act and lose it’s oomph in the final half hour, which for me would be disappointing.

The epilogue is silly, but the third act is actually good, with a solid resolution, and some redemptive moments.

> [@CJJ](#):
>
> But eventually these ideas led to some dark/chilling places. The trailers, by contrast, make this look like a flat-out comedy, which (for me) misses the sardonic point of the book

The movie as a whole is kind of a road buddy film with nostalgic flashbacks. It kind of straddles the line between roasting and having reverence for the subject. There are funny moments but it’s more of a ‘fun’ movie than an out and out ‘comedy’. There are definitely a few dark moments, and the main arc of the film is about Clooney trying to redeem some of the things that happened because of Spacey’s character and also his corruption of and current day manifestation of the unit.

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**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\
**Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/33 "2009-11-11T10:35:35Z")

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Off topic, but still about the movie, in that chant to mother Earth, when they say, “I am yours and you are mine,” was I the only one who thought of Crosby Stills & Nash?

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**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/34 "2009-11-12T14:07:03Z")

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I was put off by the last scene which didn’t match the reast of the movie. As mentioned, so many of the special powers were completely subjective or could be subject to confirmation bias, leaving the question open. Certainly, I thought the 1st Earth Army was full of shit. But then that last scene treated it like it was real.

I loved watching Gen. Hopgood try to to into the next office. I loved Gen. Hopgood all around.

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**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/35 "2009-11-12T17:25:55Z")

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> [@Hypno-Toad](#):
>
> I was put off by the last scene which didn’t match the reast of the movie. As mentioned, so many of the special powers were completely subjective or could be subject to confirmation bias, leaving the question open. Certainly, I thought the 1st Earth Army was full of shit. But then that last scene treated it like it was real.
> 
> I loved watching Gen. Hopgood try to to into the next office. I loved Gen. Hopgood all around.

At the end of the movie I thought he’d smack into the wall and land on the floor, so I was disappointed when he went through it. It didn’t seem to serve any purpose to me.

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**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/36 "2009-11-12T17:39:04Z")

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> [@Nobody](#):
>
> At the end of the movie I thought he’d smack into the wall and land on the floor, so I was disappointed when he went through it. It didn’t seem to serve any purpose to me.

Exactly my feelings too.

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**Author:** ![FalconFinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@FalconFinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FalconFinder)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/37 "2009-11-12T23:03:28Z")

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Saw the movie today and I enjoyed it. It’s not hilariously funny, but it IS fun and I did laugh.

I couldn’t help but giggle every time they mentioned “Jedi” while Ewan MacGregor was on screen! 😃

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**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\
**Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/38 "2009-11-13T00:12:45Z")

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> [@FalconFinder](#):
>
> I couldn’t help but giggle every time they mentioned “Jedi” while Ewan MacGregor was on screen! 😃

:smack: I just now realize why that’s funny.

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**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\
**Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/39 "2009-11-13T02:02:27Z")

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> [@Nobody](#):
>
> At the end of the movie I thought he’d smack into the wall and land on the floor, so I was disappointed when he went through it. It didn’t seem to serve any purpose to me.

It threw me off too. They should have pulled a Sopranos and gone to black just as he reached the wall. 🙂

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**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\
**Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-men-who-stare-at-goats-some-open-spoilers/514538/40 "2009-11-13T02:20:37Z")

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> [@Driver8](#):
>
> It threw me off too. They should have pulled a Sopranos and gone to black just as he reached the wall. 🙂

That would have been a good ending.

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