# The Mentalist - season finale - HUGE unboxed spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 20, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559 "2011-05-20T13:13:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/41 "2011-05-21T23:22:29Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > You’ve given us ideas, not a definitive truth. I think one of the options could still be that Jane shot Red John. Iif that wasn’t Red John, then Red John will have given Jane another devastating mind-fuck, so I’m regretfully leaning towards it wasn’t the real Red John that Patrick shot. How does he live with himself knowing that he got his wife and daughter killed, and now has killed a man who wasn’t exactly innocent, but isn’t Red John? And all the fallout from betraying all his colleagues who he has come to know and love, especially Lisbon… > And me. I enjoyed it. So did I. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/42 "2011-05-22T03:49:17Z")
I’m sure Malcolm McDowell’s cult is connected in some way. Probably just with Red John being a former member or using their techniques to recruit minions, but it may go deeper than that. Still, a McDowell/Jane Mindfuck-off would be fun to see. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/43 "2011-05-22T04:03:27Z")
Seems to me that eventually they’d have enough minion ID’s to put together the pattern - personally, I would have loved for Jane to have walked up to RJ and said something that made RJ blink. As it was, the only reason (apparently) that Jane caught onto RJ was the phone call from Lisbon - now maybe Jane assumed RJ would be at the mall and it was just a gambit that paid off - or the writers really want to move onto the next chapter, as there really is (or should be) a limit to RJ’s reign. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/44 "2011-05-22T05:16:25Z")
They established in the first season that there are certain people that are “incredibly” talented at hypnosis. So much so that they can get people to commit murders. They is how RJ gets people sucked in to do suicidal things and another reason that I think the psychic lady is RJ. Even she does not know that she is RJ because it is a separate personality, which is why she is so convincing to them. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/45 "2011-05-22T06:54:24Z")
I’d be OK with the idea that Jane might have to deal with attacks from Red John devotees who were given instructions in the event of his death. I’d also be OK with an arc where doubt is cast on whether this was actually Red John. But when the smoke clears, the person Jane shot needs to be Red John. I don’t think it would be fair otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/46 "2011-05-22T17:14:04Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > They established in the first season that there are certain people that are “incredibly” talented at hypnosis. So much so that they can get people to commit murders. They is how RJ gets people sucked in to do suicidal things and another reason that I think the psychic lady is RJ. Even she does not know that she is RJ because it is a separate personality, which is why she is so convincing to them. That’s interesting, because it looked to me during their intense discussion that Red John was trying to hypnotize Jane (that doesn’t seem like something that would work - have we established that Jane is immune to hypnotism?). > [@Snooooopy](#): > > I’d be OK with the idea that Jane might have to deal with attacks from Red John devotees who were given instructions in the event of his death. I’d also be OK with an arc where doubt is cast on whether this was actually Red John. But when the smoke clears, the person Jane shot needs to be Red John. I don’t think it would be fair otherwise. “Fair” don’t enter into it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/47 "2011-05-23T00:53:25Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Good point. > > As for Jane reading the Red John he killed, if there was ever a time when Jane’s readings would have been off due to extremely high emotions, that would be it. rewatched it just now - 1.) I don’t think the necklace was a listening device - I think it was actually Laughlin’s moms - he wouldnt have taken it back the way he did if it were a plant for RJ. 2.) Bertrum was not the mole or even a mole - a) on camera, Bertrum is never told where the meeting was going to take place - he was surprised on arrival there and never ‘spoke’ any keywords or made any calls. b) On the way up to the cabin, Laughlin tells Van Pelt that Rigsby let him in on the plan. c) At the meeting with RJ - RJ states that Laughlin ‘let him in on the plan’ and gave Jane credit for winning round 1 - so apparently the jumper girl’s order was not to be caught (RJ planning 1 step ahead). d) The redial of Laughlin’s phone rang RJ’s phone - no reason that RJ’s mole would call another minion - they thought they were in the clear. 1. RJ clearly did not expect Jane to be able to stop him in any way/shape or form - and had RJ not answered his phone in order to prompt the meeting with Jane, RJ would have been able to walk out of the mall without nary a suspicion - RJ clearly wanted to play Jane again and was caught abit by surprise. Better episode the second time around… and whatever is in the tupperware, it needs to stay in the tupperware. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/48 "2011-05-24T07:28:34Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > “Fair” don’t enter into it. 🙂 I just meant fair to the audience from a storytelling perspective. Certainly, life doesn’t have to be fair at all for our man Jane. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/49 "2011-05-24T20:26:47Z")
I don’t see how they’re going to twist around and make the shooting justified. It had me looking around for reports that the show had been cancelled. Frankly, I am glad they showed a willingness to actually kill off Red John, assuming that’s what they did, though I wonder what master plot they can dig up now. I think I’m not the only one who would be disappointed by a fakeout, and so their best option is probably going to be a new layer of the onion, as it were. But… what would the bigger conspiracy be, and now that Jane has had his revenge, what keeps him motivated? ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/50 "2011-05-24T21:32:19Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > I don’t see how they’re going to twist around and make the shooting justified. It had me looking around for reports that the show had been cancelled. > > Frankly, I am glad they showed a willingness to actually kill off Red John, assuming that’s what they did, though I wonder what master plot they can dig up now. I think I’m not the only one who would be disappointed by a fakeout, and so their best option is probably going to be a new layer of the onion, as it were. But… what would the bigger conspiracy be, and now that Jane has had his revenge, what keeps him motivated? If I had to make a guess his motivation would be “I won’t let anybody else suffer what I suffered, and have to do the horrible deed I did”. So he will want to catch (not kill) killers alike. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/51 "2011-05-24T22:48:08Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > I just meant fair to the audience from a storytelling perspective. Certainly, life doesn’t have to be fair at all for our man Jane. Ah, I see. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/52 "2011-05-25T03:00:58Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > I don’t exactly know what to think about it because while I understand the catharsis that Jane (and we) feel about killing RJ, I don’t see how the series could be interesting without the RJ element to it. > > Supposing that Jane did kill RJ, and he will be in the series no longer…what do the writers have to fill in the cross-season plot line? Will the Mentalist just turn into a murder of the week then? There can’t be and won’t be a show without Jane, but there can easily be a show without RJ. I know he seems like a big element, but really most seasons only have one or two episodes involving him. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/53 "2011-05-25T13:56:02Z")
So how many episodes will be devoted to Jane’s arrest, trial and so forth? I can’t see how they can easily return to the concept of him being a consultant to the state police. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/54 "2011-05-25T17:10:49Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So how many episodes will be devoted to Jane’s arrest, trial and so forth? I can’t see how they can easily return to the concept of him being a consultant to the state police. Why not? he shot an armed person in a mall that had just conffessed to not only the murder of his (Jane’s) family, but to also being a very notorious Serial Killer that was attempting to escape. I’m also sure that his confession was caught on tape, based on the earier scenes with Cho and Rigsby. Albeit, Jane did not say “stop or I’ll shoot”, but his actions will be found to be correct. From a certain point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/55 "2011-05-25T19:04:00Z")
Well, the first thing is that Jane will need to prove that Bradley Whitford’s character was Red John. And even if he was, it’s not clear that he was an immediate threat. In other words, was the killing legally justifiable? ---
**Author:** ![LateComer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5ac83/32.png) [@LateComer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LateComer)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/56 "2011-05-25T19:07:21Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > I just meant fair to the audience from a storytelling perspective. Certainly, life doesn’t have to be fair at all for our man Jane. You’re right. They can’t cheat us like that. > [@Annie Wilkes](#): > > The bad guy stuck him in a car on a mountain road and knocked him out and welded the door shut and tore out the brakes and started him to his death, and he woke up and tried to steer and tried to get out but the car went off a cliff before he could escape! And it crashed and burned and I was so upset and excited, and the next week, you better believe I was first in line. And they always start with the end of the last week. And there was Rocketman, trying to get out, and here comes the cliff, and just before the car went off the cliff, he jumped free! And all the kids cheered! But I didn’t cheer. I stood right up and started shouting. This isn’t what happened last week! Have you all got amnesia? They just cheated us! This isn’t fair! HE DIDN’T GET OUT OF THE COCK - A - DOODIE CAR! ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/57 "2011-05-25T21:00:14Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Well, the first thing is that Jane will need to prove that Bradley Whitford’s character was Red John. And even if he was, it’s not clear that he was an immediate threat. In other words, was the killing legally justifiable? Jane was wearing a wire/listening device - he could be heard by Cho and Rigsby (knock on the table if you can hear me) - the entire mall was being recorded - There is a gun next to the body of RedJohn with only RJ’s fingerprints on it and Jane is never seen going near it - RJ confessed to the murders to Jane with knowledge that only the murderer would ‘reasonably’ have - he even confessed to being RJ. To a cop - having a gun is an immediate threat - they will tell you to drop it and they are legally allowed to shoot you if you do not comply and if you make any ‘potentially’ threatenng moves - which is basically any move but putting the gun down. (especailly in TV Land). ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/58 "2011-06-12T22:06:42Z")
Watched it. Mostly enjoyed it, but thought there were a few too many exceedingly complicated twists done just to make the plot drive, not because it made any sense in the story. Like the assassin sent to the hotel. She goes up to the 8th floor, instead of the floor with the room. Then walks down stairs to the room. Breaks into that room, sits on the bed a few minutes. Why? Then she goes to open the doors to the balcony. Why? Just in time for Rigsby and Cho to break in, so she can make her escape. Why didn’t anyone question at that time what she was doing on the balcony? Turns out, she had a rope to crawl down to the room below. Yeah. Uh huh. So she went past all the rooms, came down the stairs, then broke into the room above, so she could sneak down to the balcony? Why? So they could confuse the audience with a mole misdirection. Also, did anybody else think it weird Jayne was living in a hotel room? I thought he still lived in his old house? > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I agree.There was one shot of Whitford in the foreground in particular that made me feel they wanted to clue everyone in that at least someone of interest was there with Jane. Yeah, I noticed that immediately and I only half pay attention to the screen. Something about the way he was in the foreground and Jayne was in the background made him stand out as a obvious plot point. > [@](#): > > Jane’s hands in his pockets was obvious, but I wasn’t sure what he had there, given that IIRC his character has expressed disdain for guns in the past. He has complained about guns before, but earlier this year someone gave him a gun and was talking about the feeling of liberation from shooting his wife’s killer. Jayne was later seen at target practice. I think he realized that if he ever got the chance to confront Red John on equal footing (not tied up in a chair), and he really intended to get revenge, a gun was going to be his best bet. > [@DMark](#): > > Great episode, but wouldn’t it be more interesting to know why the family was killed? (Or did I miss this in some episode?) Jayne’s family? That’s right in the first episode. Jayne was a “psychic” making lots of money, and he went on TV and made some mumbo-jumbo description about Red John to bolster his own act. Red John took offense at that, and so took revenge on Jayne by killing his wife and daughter. Thus Jayne’s penance, his refutation of psychics, and his working with the CBI. > [@](#): > > Actually, I thought all four (or five) of the suspects were guilty - and that would have been trickier to discover. Yeah, I was expecting a twist, and thought maybe they’d have more than one assassin show up. > [@soulmurk](#): > > I wondered that myself. I figured it was akin to swallowing a cyanide pill. Death before dishonor… that sort of thing. Threats of what will happen if you fail? We’ve seen his other minions and how they died. > [@Wile\_E](#): > > The thing that bugged me the most was Lisbon not having her phone on her. She was with someone in protective custody, she might have needed to call for help. Also, they would want to hear if Jane’s plan had worked. If they just wanted to create tension then just don’t have the phone ring until she’s walking toward the door. Also, same thing for hot redhead\*, she was on duty, they were waiting to hear if Jane’s plan worked and Cromartie\* may be an ex but he’s also a co-worker. Yeah, that’s another of those exceedingly complicated twists just for dramatic tension. The idea that Lisbon left her phone on the table and didn’t have it on her person is ridiculous. Seems that people in Hollywood will put their phones down at the weirdest times if it will advance the plot. > [@](#): > > \*Sorry, I don’t remember their names. So you remember their names from different shows? 😉 > [@Merneith](#): > > 1. Can we please stop hearing about Van Pelt’s love life now? Please? Agreed. I hate the 90210 love life storyline. Drop the romance - it’s in the way. > [@](#): > > 1. What’s in LaRoche’s tupperware? Yes, now I really want to know. I remember seeing the tupperware, but not what was in it, and when Jayne dropped the line I was “Wait, what did I miss?” > [@soulmurk](#): > > [hijack] He’s only just turned four, so I can’t speak with absolute certainty about how he perceives the world as he’s incapable of effectively verbalizing it, but he reads and writes without a problem, has no issues with depth perception or any other obvious signs of being negatively affected by it, and never complains of headaches. The only physical sign I notice, aside from the obvious shaking, is that he turns his head sometimes to look sort of sideways to find what the doctors call a “null point”, an angle at which the shaking is minimized and, presumably, vision is clearest. > > Surgery is a possibility,… [/hijack] Eye training is available as a treatment. A guy at work said he had this and didn’t know it until he was in college, and had to relearn how to read with eyetraining. But it helped him. My nephew was having difficulties with reading, and eye training was a great turning point for him. [/hijack] > [@Snooooopy](#): > > Once Van Pelt’s fiance was revealed to be one of the suspects, I didn’t see how it could be anybody else. Yeah, they had to work to make the others look equally suspect. The press lady reading the file and then pretending she hadn’t, the boss whining how he wished the whole Hightower mess would go away. > [@simster](#): > > As it was, the only reason (apparently) that Jane caught onto RJ was the phone call from Lisbon - now maybe Jane assumed RJ would be at the mall and it was just a gambit that paid off - . Jayne thought he was ahead, and was expecting RJ to be there to get Hightower himself, or witness it. When Jayne figured out that he was wrong, and that the mole was the FBI guy, then he was able to realize that RJ was actually ahead of him instead. And that meant that RJ was likely in the mall to witness and gloat, even if he wasn’t going to reveal himself. So the callback was a desperation move that paid off. He listened, heard the phone call, and confirmed the response was identical. It was a brilliant recovery from being outflanked. Which brings up another point that annoyed me - the whole bit by Red John about how he was tired of being a killer, and he was just going to drop out, change his identity, and go off and try to do good in the world, or some bullshit. Like that would happen. A psycho as messed up as Red John can’t just quit killing because it bores him. Maybe he was just trying to play Jayne with a “hey, you can try to stop me now, but think of all the good I’m going to do, and you’ll be responsible for stopping that” ploy. But it annoyed me. Not believable, and Jayne has just as much right to project Red John is going to continue to be a brutal murderous thug as to expect he’s suddenly going to lead international charitable efforts. And even if he did run off and found the International Brotherhood of Giving Back to the Needy or whatever, and become the number one philanthropist in the world, it wouldn’t undo the severity of the murders he is directly responsible for, or his need to pay for them. And I, too, was wondering if this means the show is cancelled. Not only was Red John killed, but the way is cleared for Van Pelt and Rigsby to get together, and Lisbon was put into a dress, and Jayne actually stood up to a guy with a gun to protect Lisbon, and practically admitted how much he loves her. It was a fitting wrap up if they wanted to end this way. I will see where it goes, but if this isn’t really Red John I may have to question my continued watching the show. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/59 "2011-06-13T00:34:48Z")
I don’t really watch this show, but reading this thread, it seems to me that a lot of folks are fully equating “the guy Jane killed was Red John” with “the guy Jane killed murdered Jane’s family.” As I believe others have pointed out, this is not necessarily so. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559/60 "2011-06-13T01:40:17Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I don’t really watch this show, but reading this thread, it seems to me that a lot of folks are fully equating “the guy Jane killed was Red John” with “the guy Jane killed murdered Jane’s family.” As I believe others have pointed out, this is not necessarily so. How so? Since the series’s inception it’s been said that RJ killed Jane’s family. Jane might not have killed the real Red John, but we do know that he killed Jane’s family…and if he didn’t do the actual deed he certainly masterminded it. Also: **Irishman** why keep spelling it “Jayne”? The series has always had him spelled “Jane”. Not mad or anything…just curious [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mentalist-season-finale-huge-unboxed-spoilers/582559.md?page=4)