# The mess in Zimbabwe **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mess-in-zimbabwe/802095 "2017-11-19T19:34:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mess-in-zimbabwe/802095/1 "2017-11-19T19:34:37Z")
This isn’t going to end well and Zimbabwe is already in an awful situation. Mugabe was expected to go on TV today and announce his resignation. Instead, BBC news has just reported that Mugabe has vowed to stay on. > **[Zimbabwe's Robert Mugabe vows to stay on despite party pressure](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-42046911)** > > Robert Mugabe defies his own party in a TV speech by clinging on to Zimbabwe's presidency. Earlier, he was given until tomorrow night to resign or face impeachment. This follows his wife, who he wanted to install as leader, being expelled from the ruling Zanu-PF party. All of this drama has come since a military coup last week. > **[Zimbabwe's ruling party sacks Robert Mugabe as leader](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-42043370)** > > Zimbabwe's Zanu-PF removes Robert Mugabe and gives him a day to resign as president. I assume this means that Mugabe will end up like Nicolae Ceaușescu within the next 24 hours. However, I have little hope that Zimbabwe will improve under the next leader. I also have no faith that the promised elections next year will take place, or if they do, they’ll be a joke. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mess-in-zimbabwe/802095/2 "2017-11-19T21:11:15Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > I assume this means that Mugabe will end up like Nicolae Ceaușescu within the next 24 hours. What? Fwiw, I don’t think it will get at all nasty. It’s just a little awkward - General Chiwenga just didn’t have the heart to force it through. A few more days and all should be well. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mess-in-zimbabwe/802095/3 "2017-11-19T21:41:41Z")
Mugabe knows the way to screw ZANU-PF for dumping him after he’s no more use to them (what a convenient outburst of concern for the national welfare after 3 decades of letting him ruin the country) is to force them to overtly admit they’re overthrowing him in a coup, thus triggering sanctions (and that’s how come there is the move to formally impeach him). So he’s refusing to budge, especially if the demand is to hand over to Mnangagwa. He’s not going to accept forced retirement. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mess-in-zimbabwe/802095/4 "2017-11-19T23:01:55Z")
Does any country like Mugabe enough to impose sanctions? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mess-in-zimbabwe/802095/5 "2017-11-19T23:11:01Z")
It’s all about China. I’d imagine they’re happy either way. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2017, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mess-in-zimbabwe/802095/6 "2017-11-19T23:53:02Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > …I assume this means that Mugabe will end up like Nicolae Ceaușescu within the next 24 hours. However, I have little hope that Zimbabwe will improve under the next leader. I also have no faith that the promised elections next year will take place, or if they do, they’ll be a joke. Mugabe is _93_; if the military was going to kill him they’d just make it like he died of natural causes, not stick him in front of a firing squad with the cameras rolling. I do think things look a lot worse for Mrs Mugabe than they do for her husband. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mess-in-zimbabwe/802095/7 "2017-11-20T00:53:25Z")
While he may end up being deposed, he will probably be allowed a quiet retirement (his age means he’s not really a threat to anyone). Deposing him is not the primary purpose of this coup, it is to make sure the military’s (and China’s) choice of successor is chosen when he leaves power. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mess-in-zimbabwe/802095/8 "2017-11-20T16:26:08Z")
It looks like this is all about preventing his wife gaining power - so one assumes you have to look at where her influence lies, who are her allies and supporters. China has sunk a shedload into Zimbabwe and in return has only seen corruption and utter mismanagement of the economy, I guess enough is enough. I expect China wishes to gain a greater influence over the whole region - but that will not happen unless it can demonstrate some benefit for local national populations to remove their idiot leaders. This is not about democratisation, its about competence and it is hard to see a great deal of that in the region. I expect this will attract a number of certain types of comment, but the reality is that corruption, breath taking incompetence and arrogance is a characteristic that seems to be dominant in the minds of many African states, all the while leveraged by the arrogant, corrupt but unfortunately very competent types of dealers who make money out of central Africa. Can they get rid of this idiot before he has time to organise his supporters in street protests and violent disorder? Well they have supported him all these years, and ultimately its still the idiots at ZANU PF that is running the show - so anything could happen because the nepotism and corruption still remains. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mess-in-zimbabwe/802095/9 "2017-11-21T11:32:00Z")
As I understand it, this is about the old guard in ZANU-PF using the military to force Mugabe, his wife and their few friends out, and getting China’s tacit approval, in order to secure their and ZANU-PF’s position in advance of the next elections. Whether Mugabe has enough supporters to launch much in the way of trouble seems a bit doubtful at the moment. The potential for trouble seems more likely to come with the disappointed hopes of the opposition, if it does indeed turn out to be business as before. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mess-in-zimbabwe/802095/10 "2017-11-21T11:48:27Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Mugabe knows the way to screw ZANU-PF for dumping him after he’s no more use to them (what a convenient outburst of concern for the national welfare after 3 decades of letting him ruin the country) is to force them to overtly admit they’re overthrowing him in a coup, thus triggering sanctions (and that’s how come there is the move to formally impeach him). So he’s refusing to budge, especially if the demand is to hand over to Mnangagwa. He’s not going to accept forced retirement. Not like Ian Smith’s Rhodesia was any better overall. But yeah, I think the under-Officers are getting fed up that he won’t do the decent thing and croak. The dude’s 93. Which means that even people a generation younger than him are nearing their 80’s. The record’s 122, and if there is any bugger alive who might beat it, its old Landing Strip 'Stache on the Zambezi. Hope Prince Charles is taking notes. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mess-in-zimbabwe/802095/11 "2017-11-21T15:52:14Z")
King Charles! It’s about time he got to be king. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mess-in-zimbabwe/802095/12 "2017-11-21T16:19:26Z")
Mugabe has resigned. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mess-in-zimbabwe/802095/13 "2017-11-21T16:39:10Z")
Mugabe is, if anything, a survivor, but this wasnt going to end with him in power (nor him willfully ceding his power). ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mess-in-zimbabwe/802095/14 "2017-11-21T20:39:17Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > What? > > Fwiw, I don’t think it will get at all nasty. It’s just a little awkward - General Chiwenga just didn’t have the heart to force it through. A few more days and all should be well. Quoted for truth 😉