They are doing it again now, even though it’s a borrowed ship.
My grandfather was in charge of training on the last tall ship in the British navy during the 50’s. He served on battleships in both world wars and finished his career on sailing ships.
They are doing it again now, even though it’s a borrowed ship.
My grandfather was in charge of training on the last tall ship in the British navy during the 50’s. He served on battleships in both world wars and finished his career on sailing ships.
What did sailing ships do in 17xx, before we had modern engines & the only way in/out of port was either sail or ride the currents? Did they try to come in in low tide so they’ve have a margin to refloat during high tide if they got stuck? I’d assume it’s a bit tricky to tack a boat of that size up river/into a harbor & into a dock against the wind.
Depends on the port, but at a busy port like Boston, a Harbor Pilot might come aboard to help them in or if especially tough, a couple of large row powered boats might pull them to the dock or anchorage.
They usually had their own boat for this use to, but would be smaller than a ports boats.
The ship’s boats would often just carry a line to the wharf and men manning the capstan aboard the ship would pull the ship in. A ship’s boat could also ferry the ship’s anchor to a desired anchorage and the ship would pull itself into position in the same manner.
I believe they used a variety of techniques. Small row-powered boats, as @What_Exit said, was one technique. Windpower and tides was another if conditions were right. “Warping” was another – pulling the ship along by hand using lines tied to mooring posts on the dock.
Short answer: it wasn’t easy, and took a lot of skill!
I’ve watched a few more videos and it now seems fairly certain that the collision happened less than two minutes after the ship’s engine was engaged (accidentally in reverse). A NY harbor docking pilot aboard Chauhtemoc was responsible for not just maneuvering the ship out of dock but also giving instructions to the assisting tug, both of which failed in this case.
It depends. The keel ballast weight is usually less than about 40% of the total displacement, so not insignificant, but under the right conditions the limiting factor is the boat’s natural hull speed, which in optimal hull designs is mostly a function of waterline length (approx. 1.34 times the square root of the waterline length). If you see a sailboat with an angled transom that juts out at the waterline, that’s to increase the waterline length.
Consider a boat like the Hunter 326, a 32-footer – not a boat I’ve ever owned but one for which I have some handy data. This boat has a waterline length (LWL) of 28.33 ft, yielding a theoretical hull speed of just over 7 knots. One owner claimed he reached that speed once under sail, but only going downwind with a big spinnaker.
Interestingly, though the boat is equipped with a fairly small 18 HP Yanmar diesel, he says it can max out at 6 knots at 3400 RPM, which isn’t that much less than hull speed. He was complaining that maybe he should have opted for the 27 HP Yanmar, which is a bit oversized for a boat of this size, but that would undoubtedly have achieved hull speed, and at a lower RPM.
The rest of the point that dear @wolfpup almost made is that it takes effectively infinite power to exceed hull speed. So a generic pleasure monohull sailboat can go as fast as is physically possible to go on only a dozen or two HP.
Conversely a generic pleasure monohull powerboat of similar size may have a hull speed of more like 20 knots and require hundreds of HP to reach that higher speed.
Planing boats are a whole different kettle of fish.
It’s been partly addressed by others above. but what do you think it takes to drop anchor on a ship that size? Push the button labeled “drop anchor”?
Nope.
More like the officer in charge gives the order, then a lead sailor rounds up the anchor gang, interrupting each of them from what they were already doing, then they all go forward to where the anchor is, detach a bunch of chains that hold it in the stowed position, then man a capstan and begin to slowly pay out chain or rope to lower the anchor towards the bottom.
So figure 10 minutes to get ready to pay out line, then another 5 or 10 to get the anchor on the bottom.
Everything on a ship takes forever. Except crashing or catching fire; that can happen quickly.
The second point is misleading. A full displacement powerboat like a conventional trawler (not one of those outrageous planing powerboats) is subject to the same hydrodynamics as a sailboat hull, though depending on the hull design the LWL multiplier factor may be different. You can push a displacement hull beyond it’s theoretical limit with sufficient power, but the power requirements increase exponentially along with lots of other problems and structural stresses, and it’s similar to the aerodynamics that you’ll be familiar with – going supersonic in the air.
Just about any non-planing motorboat of less than superyacht size that can come even close to 20 knots is going to be a semi-displacement hull design, like for instance the Beneteau Swift Trawler 35 pictured, which looks like a displacement-hull trawler but isn’t. And even that, with a semi-displacement hull and 425 HP engine, has a nominal cruising speed of 9-11 knots and a maximum speed of 18.3 knots. To increase those numbers you need a much bigger engine or a much longer semi-displacement hull and an enormously bigger engine – or a 220-ft full displacement superyacht.
Are you thinking about a particular size boat here? I am occasional racing crew here in Santa Barbara and have similarly been semi-useful ballast in Seattle (Shilshole) and in the Bay Area (Tiburon). It’s pretty common practice to come in under sail unless the wind is either really unfavorable or not there at all. And that’s up into maybe the 40 range.
My skipper is always late to the boat so we motor out to catch up to the fleet, but we always dock under sail. Because we can and it looks cool.
I don’t know what the marinas and docking arrangements look like in those locations, but speaking from my own experience here in the Great Lakes area, I would like to know how you would enter a harbour under sail through what is often a relatively narrow passage in a breakwall without endangering outgoing craft, how you’d sail along through the harbour without potentially colliding with all the little craft buzzing around in there, and – this is the best part – how, when reaching your finger dock, you suddenly make a 90-degree turn, precisely maneuver into your slip, and then – still under sail, mind you – bring six tons of boat quickly to a full stop – before you smash head-on into the concrete wall!
Well, can’t speak for the Great Lakes, but in both Santa Barbara and Shilshole, a not insubstantial number of the 30 foot and less class have no motors. Those boats regularly make it past the break wall and into the marina without a problem.
And when I’m at the helm post-race, we just tack up the channel until we’re aligned with our dock and drop the sails when we have just enough remaining momentum to glide in.
In fact, it was part of my US Sailing curriculum when I got my cruising certification. I had to prove that I could dock under sail alone at least a couple times to pass the class.
Obviously much depends on the layout of the marina and the docks. All the marinas I’ve had any experience with here had constricted space in the harbour and finger docks for all but the the most massive superyachts.
I may have been a little too over-the-top with my stricture about never sailing into a harbour, but I can honestly say as a former boat owner that in my sailing days I’ve never done it and don’t recall seeing anyone else do it. And if even they did, they’d still use the engine for docking.
That said, the idea of a 30-foot boat without an engine strikes me as so incredibly limiting, and potentially dangerous, that it’s just stupid, even if you have a wide-open harbour with side docking and a big ocean to sail in. I previously listed all the important reasons to have a reliable engine in a sailboat.
In fact when I got my first boat and we sailed it across Georgian Bay intending to sail thence onward to our home port, the weather suddenly changed while we were about halfway across, and the wind dropped to zero while a heavy fog settled in. So there we were in the middle of a huge body of water, invisible and drifting in the fog. What was there to do but immediately start the engine and resume our course? Which engine, of course, failed to start, probably because of the high humidity from the fog. But eventually it did, and we motored to safety.
Are these 30-foot class boats with no engines used exclusively for racing? Because if they’re general recreational craft, I have to wonder how many of them venture out to sea and never come back when the weather changes, and the skeletal remains of the occupants are eventually found drifting aimlessly? I am just gobsmacked by the idea of a substantial sailboat with no engine. Not anything I’ve ever seen or ever imagined could have existed! Sure, they’d probably have a radio and could call for help if either becalmed or worse, in a storm, but if I were the US Coast Guard I’d charge them plenty for the service!
Which is why, when maneuvering US Navy warships in and out of port, all those people are standing by with the anchor at the ready (sometimes already dipped so it’s hanging just above the waterline) to drop the anchor in a matter of seconds if need be.
I would be sadly disappointed to find that the on a ship of this size with such a large crew (even if trainees) the Mexican Navy didn’t have a similar protocol, but I suppose it’s possible. If they did have the anchor ready to drop, I can imagine reasons for why they didn’t, mostly having to do with how suddenly things happened and the fact that humans are fallible.
Anyway, if you can have dozens of sailors manning the yards, you can spare a few more to be up on the forecastle ready to drop the anchor on short notice. Going into and out of port is a planned evolution and it’s well known that the margin for error is slim.
But a boat or ship reaches its maximum speed when expertly handled on a beam to close reach, or even close-hauled – into the wind. The sail acts as a wing then and can apply a lot more propulsive power. Running before the wind you can go no faster than the wind – less than that actually because of drag.
My experience sailing in the Great Lakes areas is getting a ride in pleasant weather from a Mackinaw Race Old Goat. The gentleman in question absolutely has threaded the needle through a narrow passage and sailed - not motored - into his designated slip without damage to anyone or anything. Maybe it’s his 60+ years of experience sailing?
Although he’d be the first to tell you he only does that when he judges conditions safe for that maneuver, and he’s more than willing to use the motor if conditions are otherwise.
Absolutely there are advantages - including safety - in having a motor on a sailboat. Remember, though, that for thousands of years sailors didn’t have that option yet managed to dock all the time and not every time resulted in disaster. Clearly, it’s possible even if not often done anymore.
Of course, in the Bad Old Days if you found yourself in that situation you’d just be stuck there, sitting, waiting for the weather to change again.
Of course! But the fellow appeared to be describing a very windy day, when the average wind speed was presumably much higher than his hull speed. In that situation a big spinnaker is a wonderful (and speedy!) way to sail.
As for the other situations, I think the optimal one would depend on the wind speed. Sailing close to the wind on a breezy day is truly sailing at its best. Contrary to intuition, close-hauled is when you get maximum heel on the boat. Sailing close-hauled on a breezy day, with the boat heeled over at a seemingly precarious angle, you can viscerally feel the incredible power of the wind. The first time I experienced that feeling I was behind the wheel on a windy day during my initial sail training, and the water was also very rough, so the faithful boat was leaping through big waves, well heeled over, the sails so taut it was a wonder they were holding, waves breaking over the bow, and my two thoughts were (a) this is the awesome power of nature, and (b) man, I have to own a sailboat!
But if the wind is too strong you have to start reefing the main and using a smaller jib, so on any upwind course you start losing sail power advantage relative to wind resistance.
Many marinas have at least some slips that let you basically drift in alongside, in the direction you were traveling. But in the situation I was describing, which is usually much more common, I don’t see how any amount of experience would let you dock under sail (or why anyone would even try). Because first there’s that 90-degree turn you have to make. At that point you’re very close to your designated finger dock, and would have to be going so slowly that you’d have virtually no rudder control.
But assuming you could do this, as you approach the slip you’d have to be moving so incredibly slowly that someone could jump down on the dock and stop maybe as much as six tons of inertia literally by hand. Moving that slowly, you’d have no control at all, and no ability to guide the boat accurately, and might be as likely as not to drift into the next boat. I suppose it might be done if you had a very competent crew that leaped onto the dock with lines and guided the boat in, but the whole thing seems like foolishness to me, more like a circus act than serious, safe boating. The essential problem here being that, so far as I know, sails have no reverse gear!
In the Bad Old Days you’d likely be becalmed on a tall ship of the kind this thread is mainly about. It’s easier to wait things out on a big ship than a small-ish boat. Also, in the Bad Old Days there were no AIMs (Assholes In Motorboats) that might ram you in the fog.
I’ve owned and sailed sailboats over the years on the 20-something to 40 foot scale. Always equipped with an engine. All cruisers, no racers. Did have a motorless Hobie 18, but that’s a different situation. As to this bit:
Are these 30-foot class boats with no engines used exclusively for racing?
I’m not @Pork_Rind but my bet is that answer is “yes”.
I have absolutely sailed into my slip on occasion. Takes the right amount of wind from the right direction and not much traffic. And, at least for me, a very simple approach path to the slip. Plus a willingness to use a certain amount of “the Braille method of docking” to stop at the end.