# The Miami Dolphins Bullying Kerfuffle (MDBK) - we don't have a thread on this?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [November 8, 2013, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415 "2013-11-08T11:54:26Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Jesse\_Pinkman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Pinkman)
#### Post date: [November 8, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/81 "2013-11-08T19:53:57Z")
> [@WordMan](#):
>
> I agree - but if that culture/mindset, i.e., “belittle to remind rookies of their place, get them humble, build toughness and team spirit” is deeply ingrained, changing it is a big deal.
>
> So - is this a one-off incident, or an indicator of a broader, cultural issue in a violent sport like the NFL?
It’s a one-off incident. Richie Incognito is a meatheaded jerk who took it too far.
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [November 8, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/82 "2013-11-08T19:59:28Z")
> [@WordMan](#):
>
> So - is this a one-off incident, or an indicator of a broader, cultural issue in a violent sport like the NFL?
I have no doubt in my mind that this is indicative of a pervasive attitude in lots of professional sports. On a scale of one to five, where one is that teammates are treated with respect in a professional organization, and five is this kind of treatment, it would not surprise me in the least if a lot of pro sports franchises are in the three-and-a-half range.
But what is also clear to me is that there is no correlation between hazing and the performance of the team. Let’s keep in mind: during Incognito’s tenure on the Dolphins, they have been a reliably mediocre team.
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### Author:  [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)
#### Post date: [November 8, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/83 "2013-11-08T20:01:38Z")
Lets also not forget that Martin is no longer a rookie. The $15,000 Vegas trip was at the end of his rookie year and I wouldn’t blame him for thinking that was going to be the end of rookie hazing BS.
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [November 8, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/84 "2013-11-08T20:15:22Z")
More hijinks from the world’s favorite NFL player:
> [@](#):
>
> … ABC News affiliate WPLG-TV uncovered a police report in which Incognito is accused of harassing a female volunteer at a Dolphins golf tournament in 2012. … The police report detailed how Incognito allegedly harassed a 34-year-old female volunteer at the Turnberry Resort & Club in Aventura in May 2012, according to WPLG.
> Incognito “used his golf club to touch her by rubbing it up against her vagina, then up her stomach then to her chest. He then used the club to knock a pair of sunglasses off the top of her head,” the report states.
> “After that, he proceeded to lean up against her buttocks with his private parts as if dancing, saying ‘Let it rain! Let it rain!’” according to the police report. “He finally finished his inappropriate behavior by emptying bottled water in her face.”
Sure, he sexually assaulted her… but I’m sure someone will come in to explain that he just took the normal sexual harassment that NFL players always do just a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle too far. If he had backed off just a teeny bit, it would be fine, because NFL players are supposed to act like moronic cavemen. It’s because they’re like warriors… granted, a warrior that makes more in a day than an actual infantry sergeant in the United States Army makes in a month, but a warrior nonetheless.
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### Author:  [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)
#### Post date: [November 8, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/85 "2013-11-08T20:28:50Z")
Great, I need to find a new team to root for, I can no longer be a Dolphin fan.
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### Author:  [@Jesse\_Pinkman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Pinkman)
#### Post date: [November 8, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/86 "2013-11-08T20:32:17Z")
> [@Ravenman](#):
>
> More hijinks from the world’s favorite NFL player:Sure, he sexually assaulted her… but I’m sure someone will come in to explain that he just took the normal sexual harassment that NFL players always do just a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle too far. If he had backed off just a teeny bit, it would be fine, because NFL players are supposed to act like moronic cavemen. It’s because they’re like warriors… granted, a warrior that makes more in a day than an actual infantry sergeant in the United States Army makes in a month, but a warrior nonetheless.
So all people who don’t have a problem with hazing feel the same way about sexual assault? That’s dumb.
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### Author:  [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)
#### Post date: [November 8, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/87 "2013-11-08T20:37:31Z")
Given how easily hazing has historically morphed into sexual assault, I don’t think it’s at all an unusual parallel to draw.
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### Author:  [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)
#### Post date: [November 8, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/88 "2013-11-08T20:49:47Z")
> [@Ravenman](#):
>
> More hijinks from the world’s favorite NFL player:Sure, he sexually assaulted her… but I’m sure someone will come in to explain that he just took the normal sexual harassment that NFL players always do just a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle too far. If he had backed off just a teeny bit, it would be fine, because NFL players are supposed to act like moronic cavemen. It’s because they’re like warriors… granted, a warrior that makes more in a day than an actual infantry sergeant in the United States Army makes in a month, but a warrior nonetheless.
You don’t understand that he did it to toughen her up to the rigor of volunteering at a golf tournament. I mean with all the ass-pinching and "Hey baby"s, the tournament director needs to know if she can handle it or not. Incognito was doing her a favor and if you were in the fraternity of organizational amateur tournament golf players you would understand that.
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [November 8, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/89 "2013-11-08T20:59:48Z")
> [@Jesse\_Pinkman](#):
>
> So all people who don’t have a problem with hazing feel the same way about sexual assault? That’s dumb.
Would it help if I got some NFL players quoted talking about how scoring chicks is important to locker room cred?
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### Author:  [@Jesse\_Pinkman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Pinkman)
#### Post date: [November 8, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/90 "2013-11-08T21:06:25Z")
> [@Ravenman](#):
>
> Would it help if I got some NFL players quoted talking about how scoring chicks is important to locker room cred?
That’s true about nearly any locker room. What would that prove?
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [November 8, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/91 "2013-11-08T21:57:54Z")
> [@Jesse\_Pinkman](#):
>
> That’s true about nearly any locker room. What would that prove?
It might expose the patent absurdity of the proposal that society should give any deference whatsoever to the childish, masochistic behavior which may pervade locker rooms in any sport.
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### Author:  [@Jungian\_Camisole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jungian_Camisole)
#### Post date: [November 9, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/92 "2013-11-09T02:22:14Z")
Richie Incognito sounds a bit like he may be, could be, a bit (a lot) of a psychopath.
I was listening to a CNN report about this…person…as I was driving home after work. He needs to be locked in a small padded room with a small round window for observation.
When I was involved with sports at a younger age, this type of behavior would not have been tolerated. Ever. And this was 30 years ago. Have things devolved so much that people actually think this is okay? ::shudders::
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [November 9, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/93 "2013-11-09T03:01:12Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#):
>
> Seen to have productive value and has productive value are two different things and an nfl player is most likely not qualified to accurate determine which it is. Especially not someone so involved in the actual hazing.
Yes, I can see how aggression is a necessary trait in professional football and players have to develop that. But how does it help your team when you’re directing that against the other members of you team? Does bullying draw a team together and make it play better? Or does it divide a team and make it weaker on the field?
Maybe the situation here is some players know how to target their aggression and use it productively. And others players are not in control of their aggression and direct it anywhere without regard for whether it’s helping or hurting the team.
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### Author:  [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)
#### Post date: [November 9, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/94 "2013-11-09T17:00:25Z")
Two updates:
- [NBCnews.com](http://NBCnews.com) reported this morning that Incognito is feeling “betrayed.”
- The cover story on the NYTimes Magazine, obviously long-planned, is on the \*\*former Rutgers basketball coach Tim Rice \*\*who was fired after a tape was released showing him bullying the crap out of his players during practice. Should be an interesting read…
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [November 9, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/95 "2013-11-09T17:30:12Z")
Are there currently any rules in place to punish bullying or hazing in the NFL? I think everyone agrees Richie Incognito is an a-hole, bullying, dipshit, jerk. But is there much the NFL can do in this case? I suspect he’ll be playing on another team next year.
I’m sure new rules on hazing will be forthcoming. But that doesn’t help much in the current situation.
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### Author:  [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)
#### Post date: [November 9, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/96 "2013-11-09T17:53:53Z")
> [@WordMan](#):
>
> \*\*former Rutgers basketball coach Tim Rice \*\*
_Mike_ Rice. Sorry.
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2013, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/97 "2013-11-10T05:22:26Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> That bleacher report article is the best I’ve seen on life in a sports team. It really is a completely foreign world with its own rules and expectations. Even for someone that played high school and college sports the pro leagues are much different.
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Underneath the lights, behind the glamour and just below the fame of professional football exists a culture and environment so harsh and so unforgiving that it could never hold up to the political correctness of a normal workplace scenario.
Then it doesn’t need to exist.
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2013, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/98 "2013-11-10T05:29:05Z")
> [@Jesse\_Pinkman](#):
>
> They were hazing. **Part of the reasons why sports teams haze their new players is because they want to make sure that you can take the heat that the players on the other teams are going to give you.** You think everyone’s got a compliment for one another on the field? Hell no, especially in the NFL. You’re playing against other players who literally earn their bread and butter trying to beat you, and they’re going to talk trash and play dirty to try and get in your head.
>
> Also, hazing is big in pro sports because a lot of the rookies are coming out of their colleges as the best player on the team and the big man on campus. As a result, they come in with inflated egos and the vets use hazing to break them down and build them back up again.
>
> Incognito certainly went too far by bringing race into it, but the fact that Martin crumbled so easily means he’s not mentally tough enough for the NFL.
Part of the reason hazing exists is to establish that the victim can tolerate hazing?
Really?
Hazing is never justified, anywhere.
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### Author:  [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2013, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/99 "2013-11-10T12:00:49Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> Part of the reason hazing exists is to establish that the victim can tolerate hazing?
>
> Really?
>
> Hazing is never justified, anywhere.
First of all, I agree with your basic premise.
I think the idea is that opponents will do whatever they can to get in your head - including talking about your momma and your sister, and trying to scare you with how crazy they are.
I don’t see how that type of trash talk and intimidation will ever go away. Should your own teammates act that way to “toughen you up”? Jeez, not the way the Dolphins appeared to. If Martin could play at the levels he has, I’d assume he found his way to deal with those types of things.
I’m surprised Jim Harbaugh hasn’t spoken up - he was Martin’s coach at Stanford and a known, nutty tough guy. Andrew Luck has already come out very pro Martin…
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### Author:  [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2013, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-miami-dolphins-bullying-kerfuffle-mdbk-we-dont-have-a-thread-on-this/673415/100 "2013-11-10T12:05:13Z")
> [@WordMan](#):
>
> I don’t see how that type of trash talk and intimidation will ever go away.
Verbally abusing member of the opposing team. Fifteen yard penalty.
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