# The Microsoft ghost town **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 17, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-microsoft-ghost-town/606576 "2011-12-17T21:44:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 2\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-microsoft-ghost-town/606576/81 "2011-12-22T17:18:22Z")
> [@SlowMindThinking](#): > > Are you deliberately misreading what I wrote? Kryio claimed that Beowulff was a retard for claiming that Apple sold the first GUI computer, presumably meaning a personal computer with an operating system based on a windowing computer. I stated that Xerox developed the first, but never sold it. Reading the article, I see that they sold a.system based on the software, but not as a stand alone system - not as a personal computer. > > I still stand by my claim that Apple is generally given kudos as the creator of the PC. To me that sentence means that when a company is picked as having created the personal computer, they are generally given credit. That is not saying they were the first to sell one. I seem to recall thinking of getting a build it yourself PC, called an Altair(?). But, the fact remains that Apple is generally considered to have created the market for a personal computer. > > And, truthfully, we are actually not far from each other. I agree with your main point that Apple did not originate many of the technologies in their very successful products. Until Beowulff posted they’re 3000 patents, I never realized Apple was an “invention” company; I picture them as more of a stove pipe integrator. They are probably the best at that, at least right now. As I accurately claimed before, they did not invent the 3.5 inch diskette, but were the first to implement it in a personal computer with a reliable interface. They were the first company to sell a personal computer with a mouse and windowing operating system. Heck, they were even the first to have a failure at that. > > Btw, I’m not sure firewire should be considered a joke. When it came out, it was much faster than USB. I have no idea why it didn’t take off, if it was a Sony Betamax, or if there is something intrinsic to it that makes it less viable, but it wasn’t a joke at the time. Firstly, the issue of Apple as inventor of the PC came about from this exchange: > [@beowulff](#): > > Microsoft feels compelled to copy Apple in everything they do. Since the Apple stores have been a smashing success (more [dollars/square foot](http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20096519-17/another-apple-win-retail-sales-per-square-foot/) than any other US retailer), Microsoft figured that they better cash in also. If the crowds I’ve seen are any indication, they are failing miserably. Microsoft has been placing their stores as close as they can to Apple’s. (With a post in between about Windows Phone) > [@BwanaBob](#): > > Remind me again what Apple actually invented, not just made pretty. > > MP3 players - no > Tablet computers - no > Cell phones - no > Computers - no > Touch screens - no > > Aren’t they the same people who swore to not get involved in the music business because real Apple (aka the Beatles) was already in that field? > > I find people worshipping Apple while wearing their obligatory Steve Jobs kneepads quite distasteful. > [@beowulff](#): > > Apple invents lots of technology. > But, what they are better at is identifying nascent technologies and putting them into their products before anyone else. For a few examples: > 3.5" Floppies > Mouse > GUI > Touchpads > Multi-touch > WiFi > USB > Handwriting recognition > GUI phone > Thunderbolt > (and I could think of many others) > > Apple may not have “invented” all of these technologies, but they made products with them and put them on the market before any other major player. That is why Microsoft and others are always playing the “copy Apple” game. Note **Bwana Bob** says Apple invents a lot of technologies then goes on (by his own admission) to list technologies Apple did not invent. This prompts this comment (in reference to Apple not actually inventing things): > [@Reno\_Nevada](#): > > Um…how about the _Personal Computer_? Or do you think Altair deserves the kudos for that one? The “kudos” line of comments comes from there, so if you’re saying they deserve those “kudos” then you’re saying they deserve “kudos” for _inventing the Personal Computer_, because that is what **Reno Nevada** specifically was talking about. I would disagree that any reputable person thinks Apple deserves credit for **inventing** the personal computer. **KneadToKnow** then mentions that IBM deserves the kudos for the PC, then you come in and say Apple does. You may not directly claim that Apple invented the PC, but the line of discussion started with **Reno Nevada** specifically replying to the comment “Remind me again what Apple has actually invented” with “the PC, don’t they generally get kudos for that?” That is the origin of this part of the discussion and is directly linked to the idea that Apple invented the PC, not that they were the first to market the PC. The later (and familiar) argument about GUI development and Xerox vs. Apple actually came after you had posted saying (transitively) that Apple had invented the PC. I think it entirely possible you did not **intend** to say Apple invented the PC itself, but because the post you were replying to was in reply itself to a post in which someone was claiming Apple **invented** the PC, and you said nothing to indicate you disagreed with that _portion_ of the discussion, and only replied that Apple deserves kudos and not IBM, it directly associates your post with the idea that Apple invented the PC itself. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-microsoft-ghost-town/606576/82 "2011-12-22T18:08:31Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Today is one of the busiest shopping days of the year. > I went to one of the largest, most crowed malls in the Phoenix area (Scottsdale Fashion Square) and took this picture of the “crowds” at the Microsoft store I’m not from Phoenix, but I was recently there. In fact, I went by this mall and was shocked (honestly shocked) by how few people were there. When I walked into whatever high end store I was by (Barney’s, maybe?) and started looking at the designer shoes, I was MAJORLY creeped out by the fact that I was literally the only non-employee in the store. I went so far as to ask one of the sales girls who started chatting me up if they were closing soon and if I was that clueless dolt who wandered in and ruined their night. Nope, open for three more hours! In our conversation, she said that mall isn’t nearly as busy as the others, probably due to it’s higher end nature. Plus, she said, the tourists come in swarms and when the season is off, they are quite seriously dead dead dead. Is Dec high season for you guys? I suppose I always thought it was spring. That said, I also wasn’t aware there is such a thing as a Microsoft store. > [@Rigamarole](#): > > Shit, you can buy iPods/iPhones from _[vending machines](http://www.shrutibhandari.com/images/ipod_vending_machine_2.jpg)_ at the airport. For realsies. They have a vending machine like this at the Macy’s in the mall in Bakersfield. > [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > They’re putting a pretty fine point on it. The big sign over the entrance only says ‘Sony’, and the the description in the article sounds exactly like the store that’s been there for years with the exception of the interior color scheme. Word. When I was in Florida, my friend bought herself one of their E-Reader things from a Sony Store in the mall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-microsoft-ghost-town/606576.md?page=4)