# The Middle Ages Never Happened? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 4, 2022, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-ages-never-happened/969074 "2022-08-04T04:57:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2022, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-ages-never-happened/969074/41 "2022-08-07T22:58:43Z")
I will take the summary culmination of a 40-page chapter on the 1890s over the total lack of any cite you provide. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-ages-never-happened/969074/42 "2022-08-08T03:00:00Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I will take the summary culmination of a 40-page chapter on the 1890s over the total lack of any cite you provide. Dude, your own cite quotes an editorial saying that the editors had automatically assumed that the twentieth century began on the first day of 1900, and that they switched from what they considered that natural and expected interpretation to the officially mandated one. [Here’s that editorial in more detail.](https://books.google.com/books?id=Ya_SAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA651) > [@](#): > > […] If we felt called upon to make an apology for our seeming change of base, we might sum up the reasons for so doing somewhat as follows: […] > > We are aware that some others of greater erudition […] have, after considerable contention to the contrary, acquiesced in the rule which begins with the end of the first year of the first century, instead of the beginning of that year […] > > President Timothy Dwight, then of Yale University […] in 1800 wrote a letter to settle a wager between two zealous disputants […] [about the same controversy.] Obviously, quantitatively literate people have always been able to figure out that if you are starting a century, or a decade, at the beginning of a year numbered 1, then the lapse of exactly one hundred (or exactly ten, respectively) years will take you to the beginning of another year numbered 1, rather than a year numbered 0. But that doesn’t mean that the question of choosing the “one-year” versus the “zero-year” as an official starting-point was ever uncontroversial. [Here’s a detailed investigation of the history of the so-called “Centurial Feud”.](https://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/battle.html) > [@](#): > > End of the Seventeenth Century > > […] Extrait d’une letre de Monsieur de Vallemont Docteur en Theologie, a Monsieur Delpech Conseiller au Parlement de Paris; sur la question: Si l’an 1700. finit le XVII. Siecle, qui court; ou s’il commence le Siecle suivant. […] > [My translation: Extract from a letter from M. de Vallemont, Doctor of Theology, to M. Delpeche, Counselor to the Parliament of Paris, on the question: If the year 1700 finishes the 17th century, current; or if it begins the following century.] > > Favors the view that the year 1700 will begin the new century, citing a number of ecclesiastical authorities in support, but points out that, among others, the members of the Academie Francaise are of the opposite opinion, having included in the definition of the word siecle in their dictionary the statement “Le Siecle qui court, a comence au premier jour de l’an 1601.” […] > > End of the 18th Century > > Two letters on the controversy. The first, dated Mar. 13 and signed “A Constant Reader,” submits two simple methods of showing “that the XIXth century commences the 1st of Jan. 1801.” The second, dated Wooler, Mar. 21, and signed N. G.," argues for the opposing view. […] > > A letter dated June 12 and signed “C. N.” supports N. G. and points out that “the Astronomer Royal and Dr. Herschel, the two greatest living authorities, are of opinion that the next century will commence with the year 1800 …” […] ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-ages-never-happened/969074/43 "2022-08-08T06:42:28Z")
Ugh, enough with this stupid argument. I wish this THREAD had never happened. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-ages-never-happened/969074/44 "2022-08-08T07:42:29Z")
I say the turn of the century doesn’t happen until 3:14 AM on January 19th, 2038. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-ages-never-happened/969074/45 "2022-08-08T10:29:22Z")
When the kids leave home and the dog dies. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-ages-never-happened/969074/46 "2022-08-08T11:07:17Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I say the turn of the century doesn’t happen until 3:14 AM on January 19th, 2038. More like the turn of the epoch, but I agree w your thinking, if not your terminology. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-ages-never-happened/969074/47 "2022-08-08T18:08:52Z")
Sigh. Of course there were controversies in the past. That’s my entire point. I was asking Riemann to back up his contention that the century’s beginning was _not_ ever widely celebrated on xx00. I pushed back on a statement with no foundation and no cite. Your post confirms that people disagreed every time the centuries rolled over came up. Therefore some celebrations were of xx00 and some of xx01. That’s indisputable. Thank you for the backup, so I’m going to let this drop. ---
**Author:** ![CorpusNeptune](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corpusneptune/32/17561_2.png) [@CorpusNeptune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CorpusNeptune)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-ages-never-happened/969074/48 "2022-08-08T18:16:11Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I wish this THREAD had never happened. Aw, man! I didn’t mean for this thread to go to shit; I just wanted to share something I thought was interesting. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-ages-never-happened/969074/49 "2022-08-09T11:04:54Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > More like the turn of the epoch, but I agree w your thinking, if not your terminology. Epoch, century. Bah and fie!. What’s an era or two between friends? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-ages-never-happened/969074/50 "2022-08-09T13:05:04Z")
> [@CorpusNeptune](#): > > Aw, man! I didn’t mean for this thread to go to shit; I just wanted to share something I thought was interesting. ☹ It’s a fine thread about a fine if wacky story. Any wacky topic where we can get a few ~~angels dancing~~ Dopers stomping on the head of a pin is a fine topic with real potential. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-ages-never-happened/969074/51 "2022-08-09T14:07:47Z")
The Middle Ages Never Happened? There’s gotta be a way to blame the French. And Barbara Tuchman, who intentionally deceived us by writing _A Distant Mirror: The Calamitous Fourteenth Century_. 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![FrenchDunadan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frenchdunadan/32/5449_2.png) [@FrenchDunadan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrenchDunadan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-ages-never-happened/969074/52 "2022-08-09T20:55:20Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > There’s gotta be a way to blame the French Hé ! That’s at this time that we first conquered Europe ! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-ages-never-happened/969074/53 "2022-08-09T21:23:50Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > There’s gotta be a way to blame the French. It’s generally considered that France didn’t quite exist at that point 🙂. It’s nebulous and a continuum but West Francia didn’t spring into existence until 843 and in 911 the boundaries of the Frankish realms were still in flux - Charles the Simple incorporated Lotharingia under his personal rule that very year. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-ages-never-happened/969074.md?page=2)