# The Middle East (growl) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 18, 2001, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-east-growl/72934 "2001-07-18T15:12:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![heembo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f6c823/32.png) [@heembo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heembo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-east-growl/72934/1 "2001-07-18T15:12:18Z")
All of the constant fighting between the Israeli and Palestinian people is driving me crazy, and has caused me to think (I hate it when that happens) about the whole situation. Wasn’t Israel established sometime after WWII as a sort of “We’re really sorry about that thing with the Nazis, so you can have this land as our way of saying sorry” gesture? If that is the case (and please correct me if I am wrong) - why the fuck didn’t we give them Germany instead?!? It seems like we punished the Palestinians for something the German’s did. Then I see all this violence in the middle east, and hear about the economic prosperity of Germany, and I want to scream! WHAT THE FUCK!?! 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-east-growl/72934/2 "2001-07-18T15:41:12Z")
You’re joking, right? You don’t honestly believe the struggle for land between the Jews and the Palestinians only goes back 60 years, right? _RIGHT?_ ---
**Author:** ![Kamandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5daacb/32.png) [@Kamandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamandi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-east-growl/72934/3 "2001-07-18T15:49:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by heembo \* > **…and has caused me to think (I hate it when that happens)** Indeed. ---
**Author:** ![heembo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f6c823/32.png) [@heembo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heembo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-east-growl/72934/4 "2001-07-18T16:22:59Z")
Thanks for all the information fucknuts. God forbid I try to get some information out of you assholes. You don’t actually think you’re providing information, right? Right?And since we’re in the Pit: Coldfire: Why don’t you take that stiff little attitude and fuck whatever it is you sleep with at night. I’m sure it could use it after being with a limp ass fuckhole like you. Kamandi: Your input clearly shows how intelligent you are. My god I was floored by your eleoquent display of intellectualism. Let me guess - you’re coldfire’s bitch. I am I right? I thought so. And by the way - fuck off dickheads. Fuck off. Fighting ignorance my ass. You’re proliferating it. Coldfire - aren’t you a moderator or something? Shouldn’t you be fighting the good fight instead of contributing to the problem? And what do you have to do to become a moderator anyway - be a dick sucking kiss ass or just annoyingly arrogant? Fuck you. Got that? F U C K Y O U D I C K H E A D ! ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-east-growl/72934/5 "2001-07-18T16:34:00Z")
heembo - here is the answer I was preparing while you were having your outburst. I’ll post it anyway. Simmer down. And you shouldn’t have slept in history class. * * * OK, rather than express incredulity, I’ll just say you’re wrong. From [http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH00hb0](http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH00hb0) concerning the establishment of Israel: > [@](#): > > In the year 5657 (1897), at the summons of the spiritual father of the Jewish State, Theodore Herzl, the First Zionist Congress convened and proclaimed the right of the Jewish people to national rebirth in its own country. > > This right was recognized in the Balfour Declaration of the 2nd November, 1917, and re-affirmed in the Mandate of the League of Nations which, in particular, gave international sanction to the historic connection between the Jewish people and Eretz-Israel and to the right of the Jewish people to rebuild its National Home. Now, that site appears to be a government site for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Israel, and its tone could be a bit slanted, but it was the first one I found with the basic facts, which it has right - the move to establish a Jewish state in Eretz-Israel in modern times goes back to the early part of the 20th century, based on traditional historical claims going back thousands of years (whether those claims should have been treated as a valid basis for shuffling real estate in the Middle East or not is a subject for GD). The Holocaust provided a catalyst. ---
**Author:** ![heembo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f6c823/32.png) [@heembo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heembo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-east-growl/72934/6 "2001-07-18T16:39:18Z")
> [@](#): > > heembo - here is the answer I was preparing while you were having your outburst. I’ll post it anyway. Simmer down. And you shouldn’t have slept in history class. Yabob, I appreciate the information you provided. However, you can go sleep with coldfire and you two can suck each other’s dicks. I didn’t sleep in history class, for your information. God forbid I don’t know everything you fuckos do. Come on over to my house some time and we’ll find something you don’t know and I’ll berate you for it. God damn you people are arrogant. Steembo ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-east-growl/72934/7 "2001-07-18T16:41:45Z")
In my vague recollections, while the Holocaust was a likely catalyst for the eventual formation of the state of Israel in 1948 (date?), there was not a direct link between the two and it wasn’t really “spoils of war”. And despite **Coldfire** ’s less-than-helpful presentation, it is certainly true that both the intertribal conflict (for lack of a better term) and the Zionist movement existed long before the war. I will defer to others with better knowledge at hand of what happened (although you could always go rent “Exodus” for Hollywood’s version of events). Or you could phrase your question more politely and pose it in GQ. Your choice. But since this is the Pit: “Hey you people killing each other in the Middle East. Yes you, all of you. **Fuck you!** ” \ ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-east-growl/72934/8 "2001-07-18T16:42:17Z")
Just calm-diddly down, **heembo**. Sometimes a question that is asked whose answer is well-known by most _appears_ to be a non-serious question, or an attempt at humour. Please walk away from the computer for a few minutes/hours, then come back and try to calm down. Otherwise, **Voodoo Queen Una** predicts the Loa will take your soul, and your posting priveledges, straight to Hell… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-east-growl/72934/9 "2001-07-18T16:51:25Z")
> [@](#): > > God damn you people are arrogant. Y’know, I should introduce you to our friend, Jeremy. He gets similar reactions to his oh-so-intelligent threads asking for help with Microsoft products. In other words… if you want intelligent responses, make an intelligent OP. If you want simple information, post in GQ. ---
**Author:** ![Alphagene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Alphagene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alphagene)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-east-growl/72934/10 "2001-07-18T16:59:17Z")
Rants can be amusing. Tantrums never are. Get a grip, heembo. The grattuitous "fuck you"s, whether they be horizonal or vertical, are not welcome. We ain’t here to change your diaper. Shape up or piss off. Love, Alphagene ---
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-east-growl/72934/11 "2001-07-18T17:01:35Z")
Well , Una, judging by his thread\> [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=78511](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=78511) I think that is the IDEA here. Looks like heembo wants to go out with a bang, screaming all the way, perhaps in hopes of getting a “heembo was banned” type protest thread in his honor.\* [sub]\* Not bloody likely.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-east-growl/72934/12 "2001-07-18T17:04:14Z")
Israeli history in a nutshell: [http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/history/israel.html](http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/history/israel.html) Palestinian history in a nutshell: [http://www.arab.net/palestine/history/palestine\_history.html](http://www.arab.net/palestine/history/palestine_history.html) My nutshell comments: 1. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict existed before WWII. 2. The land Israel stands on is the historic homeland of the Jews, which they feel was promised to them by God. No other piece of land on Earth will do. 3. The Palestinians are very, very pissed off by the loss of this land. Maybe the only way there will be peace is if they all end up killing each other. It’s a helluva problem. And that’s the Cliff’s Notes version of history for today! ---
**Author:** ![Kamandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5daacb/32.png) [@Kamandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamandi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-east-growl/72934/13 "2001-07-18T17:31:56Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by heembo \* > \*\* > Kamandi: Your input clearly shows how intelligent you are. My god I was floored by your eleoquent display of intellectualism. Let me guess - you’re coldfire’s bitch. I am I right? I thought so._\* My first flame! _:sniff:_ I’m chokin’ up here, gang - really. I’ve been here nearly five months, posting snippy Pit comments all the way, and this is the _first time_ anyone has acknowledged my efforts\*. It’s quite an honor. I finally feel like I fit in! All prompted by one word! 😃 [sub]\*Except for Fenris in his [pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1448663#post1448663), bit that doesn’t count because I was just pulling his leg. ---
**Author:** ![Gr8Kat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gr8kat/32/18668_2.png) [@Gr8Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gr8Kat)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-east-growl/72934/14 "2001-07-18T17:36:17Z")
If someone is really interested in learning, there have been several threads on this subject in the past. A search for “Israel” in GD brought up several threads I hadn’t even known existed. But I remember learning a lot about the subject from this thread [Is Israel acting like 1930s Germany](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=42088) back when it started last fall. ---
**Author:** ![magdalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@magdalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magdalene)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-east-growl/72934/15 "2001-07-18T17:51:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by heembo \* > If that is the case **(and please correct me if I am wrong)** - why the fuck didn’t we give them Germany instead?!? It seems like we punished the Palestinians for something the German’s did. You’re wrong. You’ve been corrected. Since you posted this in the BBQ Pit, you’ve been corrected without sensitivity to your delicate little feelings. Please shut up now, your desparate cries for attention are interfering with my siesta. I suppose we could just [dismantle Israel](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=57186) and move it to Germany, but you see, that would make us total fucking loons. ---
**Author:** ![red\_dragon60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@red\_dragon60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_dragon60)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-east-growl/72934/16 "2001-07-18T17:56:08Z")
Nothing much to add here, except that I want a personalized flame by heembo too! btw, the conflict is not so much about land as much as it is the tradition. Their fathers did it, so they will too. Same kind of situation in Northern Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-middle-east-growl/72934/17 "2001-07-18T17:58:10Z")
Okay, folks. This thread is being shut down. Want to know why Isreal was created? Make a GQ thread. Want to know how to stop the Middle East hostilities? Make a GD thread. Want to insult people for not fighting ignorance, or Middle Easterners for not stopping the violence? Start a Pit thread. Heembo, get your forums straight and keep it appropriate. And don’t start Pit threads about topics you really don’t understand. Better to keep yer yap shut and have people think you a fool than to talk and remove all doubt.