# The mighty air traffic controllers. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 26, 2019, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440 "2019-01-26T12:42:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/81 "2019-01-28T01:37:10Z")
Also, note that Texas is _already_ a “minority-majority” state, with non-Hispanic whites comprising [only 42% of the population](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/tx). The belief that Texas also wants to cut off its own access to Mexico, especially via a wall, can only be supported by people who don’t know shit about Texas. (Correction: Texas is 40% Hispanic, not 43% as stated in the above post.) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/82 "2019-01-28T02:35:12Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > Let me try a different approach. If I can show you crime data from just one of the border states, and the victim’s number enough to fill up a football stadium would you agree to a new wall with better border security? > > We are talking about less than 1% of the amount the government spent, and I haven’t even touched on the jobs it would creat for the project. > > [https://www.dps.texas.gov/administration/crime\_records/pages/txcriminalalienstatistics.htm](https://www.dps.texas.gov/administration/crime_records/pages/txcriminalalienstatistics.htm) > > Between June 1, 2011 and December 31, 2018, these **186,000** illegal aliens were charged with more than **292,000 criminal offenses** which included arrests for 539 homicide charges; 32,443 assault charges; 5,695 burglary charges; 36,840 drug charges; 395 kidnapping charges; 15,859 theft charges; 23,487 obstructing police charges; 1,650 robbery charges; 3,428 sexual assault charges; 2,152 sexual offense charges; and 2,949 weapon charges. > > DPS criminal history records reflect those criminal charges have thus far resulted in over 120,000 convictions including 238 homicide convictions; 13,559 assault convictions; 3,138 burglary convictions; 17,806 drug convictions; 173 kidnapping convictions; 7,064 theft convictions; 11,264 obstructing police convictions; 1,011 robbery convictions; 1,689 sexual assault convictions; 1,148 sexual offense convictions; and 1,280 weapon convictions. > > ^^ There you have, USA citizens being prey upon by illegal immigrants. The data is from the Texas Department of Safety. Just imagine if I added in New Mexico, Arizona, and California. How many victims do you think we’d have then? Keep in mind much of crime goes unsolved, so the true number of victims exceed the amount of convictions. So? I mean, really. So? 292,000 crimes in a 6.5 year period? Think that matters when the statewide arrest numbers look like: (2011: No partial year data found) 2012: 1,056,000 arrests 2013: 936,000 arrests 2014: 876,000 arrests 2015: 829,000 arrests 2016: 808,000 arrests 2017: 759,000 arrests (2018 TXDPS report not compiled yet) Total: 5,264,000. And that doesn’t include 1.5 years, which we will extrapolate as: July 2011 - December 2011: 500,000 arrests (1.063 million occurred that year) 2018: 759,000 arrests (same as 2017) Estimated total: 6,523,000 arrests. 292,000/6,523,000 = 4.47% So, in the state with the largest border with Mexico, not even 5% of the crimes committed were committed by illegal aliens. But wait, there’s more! Texas has over [220 million people visit it from other States](https://www.tourism-review.com/travel-tourism-magazine-texas-tourism-more-than-220-million-domestic-visitors-article2313) every year. While I cannot find TX crime statistics which detail the resident state of the criminal, I am quite positive that, of the 6.2 million crimes that were not committed by illegal aliens (including solicitation, possession of narcotics, fraud, property crimes, etc etc etc), to merely equal the numbers of crimes committed by illegal aliens, only .02% of the US-based visitors to our State would have to be arrested. I think it’s quite reasonable to assume that _some_ of the US-born visitors to this State end up fucking it up, right? I mean, most of these visitors are conventioneers, family trips through the State, etc… but surely some crimes happen. 1.2 billion people! And .02% is kinda low, but people usually get their criming on near home, true. So… should we just build a wall around Texas? And since this is the case among _all_ states, why not just stop there? Why not 51 walls - one for each state, + the country? (The Hawaii wall will be _lit_.) To conclude: 1. Illegal alien arrests count for fewer than 5% of all arrests in the State with the longest border with Mexico. This is not a crisis. 2. Given 1.2 billion non-Texan Americans visited Texas in the same time period, it is reasonable to conclude that some of them committed crimes as well. 3. To be arrested in the same minuscule numbers as illegal aliens, only .02% of all American visitors to Texas had to be arrested. Whether or not _this_ is reasonable is still left for debate. Additional data (even from other states) is welcome. You can relax now, Old Wise One. We got this. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/83 "2019-01-28T03:30:42Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > You think Ted Cruz wants to defend kicking old white men and Hispanic Abuela’s out of their centuries-owned family ranches? Which ranches? As I understand it, for the most part, the Rio Grande river divides Texas and Mexico. The wall sections end up not being quite on the river, so there’s a small amount of ranch land being lost for most of these ranchers. For some of the ranches, it’s a considerable section, but this isn’t usual. Hardly “kicking them out”. I do agree the wall is a waste of money, and the OP is not arguing well with facts or reason, and that Texans generally don’t want a wall, but this point of yours seems questionable. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/84 "2019-01-28T03:33:43Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Which ranches? As I understand it, for the most part, the Rio Grande river divides Texas and Mexico. The wall sections end up not being quite on the river, **so there’s a small amount of ranch land being lost for most of these ranchers.** For some of the ranches, it’s a considerable section, but this isn’t usual. Hardly “kicking them out”. > > I do agree the wall is a waste of money, and the OP is not arguing well with facts or reason, and that Texans generally don’t want a wall, but this point of yours seems questionable. How does the presence of a 30 foot wall (and the possibility of people running through your property) affect property value? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/85 "2019-01-28T03:46:42Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Which ranches? As I understand it, for the most part, the Rio Grande river divides Texas and Mexico. The wall sections end up not being quite on the river, so there’s a small amount of ranch land being lost for most of these ranchers. For some of the ranches, it’s a considerable section, but this isn’t usual. Hardly “kicking them out”. > > I do agree the wall is a waste of money, and the OP is not arguing well with facts or reason, and that Texans generally don’t want a wall, but this point of yours seems questionable. Did you not read the cites? The WaPo one, for example, clearly states: > [@](#): > > And unlike in Arizona and New Mexico, most of the land along the Texas border is privately owned, so building any structure would require taking it by eminent domain. For land owners, access to water is _crucial_. Why would I want to give up my Rio Grande boat dock so some hillbilly in Kentucky can “feel”, not “be”, safer? I mean, seriously. Waterway rights are viciously fought for and protected, and this wall will be no exception - in fact, it would be a landmark case in this field. And don’t forget the takings needed to provide access and support to this idiocy as roads allowing access to the wall will have to be built, the construction impact alone going far beyond the physical wall - and it all has to be on the _American_ side, as Mexico wont stand for a single blade of grass to be disturbed on their national territory. I mean, the more I think about the political morass the GOP would be in if this stupid thing ever passes, the more appealing the wall looks. 🙂 But, to answer the question: being suddenly denied centuries-approved waterway access and having a, say, 200-foot strip of land stolen by the Federal Government will count as being “kicked off my land”, especially here in Tejas. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/86 "2019-01-28T03:56:36Z")
For example… Open a map, go to Zapata, TX. The Rio Grande is a large lake there. Who, owning land on this lake, is going to want to lose access to it because some fool in South Dakota wants a goddamned wall? What political party, knowing that 38 \> 2, wants to convince the people of Texas that the people of South Dakota know what’s better to do with their lake property? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/87 "2019-01-28T03:59:48Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > How does the presence of a 30 foot wall (and the possibility of people running through your property) affect property value? For some reason, I’m reminded of the parody of _A Few Good Men_ that appeared in MAD Magazine: Colonel Fessup: That’s a small price to pay for the job I do protecting the wall! If it wasn’t for me, that wall might move into your home town! How would you like to have it outside your window? What would happen to your view then? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/88 "2019-01-28T04:00:38Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > For example… > > Open a map, go to Zapata, TX. > > The Rio Grande is a large lake there. > > Who, owning land on this lake, is going to want to lose access to it because some fool in South Dakota wants a goddamned wall? > > What political party, knowing that 38 \> 2, wants to convince the people of Texas that the people of South Dakota know what’s better to do with their lake property? On the other hand, the voters of Texas helped put Trump in office while knowing about his plans for a wall. Decisions have consequences. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/89 "2019-01-28T04:03:06Z")
Well, sadly, even the best of marriages fall apart. 🙂 Seriously, though - the wall was a non-factor in this state as far as why people voted for Dotard in 2016, and if it actually starts being built it will become an albatross for the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/90 "2019-01-28T04:03:54Z")
A belated thought occurs: could this end up affecting _Kelo v. City of New London_? Frankly, it represents quite an abuse of eminent domain and should go away. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/91 "2019-01-28T05:24:25Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > And the same problem exists in AZ (11 EV’s), though I am not as familiar with the politics there. I’m not intimately familiar with Arizona politics, either, though they just elected a Democrat to one of their Senate seats for the first time in over 20 years, when Kyrsten Sinema beat Martha McSally (in an extremely close race) to replace Jeff Flake. After losing to Sinema, McSally was then appointed to the late John McCain’s seat (after John Kyl held it for a few months), but she’ll have to defend the seat in 2020. This suggests that the Democrats may be gaining strength in the state, and as with Texas, the state GOP may not want to poke the eminent-domain bear, either. ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/92 "2019-01-28T11:19:14Z")
If I filled up a stadium with all the victims of American gun violence, would that shock you? Would it convince you to confiscate all the guns in America? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/93 "2019-01-28T16:16:14Z")
[Architects! Tell me your wall design plans for this section of the Rio Grande!](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Zapata,+TX+78076/@26.8943682,-99.3133729,12.75z) 1. Do you build an impenetrable barrier across the lake between Falcon Mesa and Siesta Shores, thereby blocking access to the RG from the cove? 2. Do you build an impenetrable barrier along the shoreline, allowing access to the cove from the Rio Grande, but blocking land access to the cove? 3. [This section, north of Falcon State Park](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Zapata,+TX+78076/@26.6044787,-99.1633869,14.25z). Do you build your wall on the Rio Grande, or wind it around the various coves and such? 4. Do we lose our State Park? 5. What are your design plans to keep [FM 2098 Spur](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Zapata,+TX+78076/@26.5576433,-99.1714707,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x866155ce4252566d:0xe0aa5e987257ce6f!8m2!3d26.9072605!4d-99.2714255) access road open, and on American territory, if you decide to build along the shoreline? 6. Explain where the wall is going to be placed as to not affect operations of the [Falcon State Dam](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Zapata,+TX+78076/@26.5579606,-99.1684913,2315m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x866155ce4252566d:0xe0aa5e987257ce6f!8m2!3d26.9072605!4d-99.2714255). If placed on the shoreline, does the wall go on top of the dam? 7. How does the wall impact the 1944 [Treaty for the Utilization of Waters of the Colorado and Tijuana Rivers and of the Rio Grande](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Boundary_and_Water_Commission#The_border_and_water_treaties), which governs the use of the Falcon Lake facilities for both countries? (I mean, I can go on and on about how this idiotic idea is a fucking nightmare for the GOP, based upon the delusions of people who can’t even be bothered to look at the border via Google Maps, but I think these 7 questions are interesting enough design challenges.) Oh! And you have to block all this water access in a way which is politically acceptable to the largest state the GOP carries. (And we haven’t even begun to explore what the fuck happens in [El Paso](https://www.google.com/maps/place/El+Paso,+TX/@31.7595307,-106.4693655,6221m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x86e73f8bc5fe3b69:0xe39184e3ab9d0222!8m2!3d31.7618778!4d-106.4850217), [Laredo](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Laredo,+TX/@27.4816067,-99.5194695,9208m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8660c06ca7f93d25:0xb4407a5349567491!8m2!3d27.5035613!4d-99.5075519), the [farms of McAllen and Pharr](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Harlingen,+TX/@26.0877757,-98.1922669,11067m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x866f82107a2f2b4f:0x7666c5a12774f1d3!8m2!3d26.1906306!4d-97.6961026), [Brownsville](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Harlingen,+TX/@25.8967026,-97.5216954,13156m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x866f82107a2f2b4f:0x7666c5a12774f1d3!8m2!3d26.1906306!4d-97.6961026), and more. How is it even possible to build an impenetrable physical barrier which allows water flow throughs of the 10s of thousands of gallons an hour needed for irrigation purposes?) Have fun! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/94 "2019-01-28T23:19:46Z")
**JohnT** , all of your questions have a single, easy answer: Immigrants are bad and illegal. Why do you want more drugs and crime? An immigrant probably killed a nun once. You support nun-killers. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/95 "2019-01-28T23:29:35Z")
I support open borders for nun-killers, yes. Your point? :dubious: (Wait… is this a bad thing? 😕 ) ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/96 "2019-01-28T23:36:42Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I support open borders for nun-killers, yes. Your point? :dubious: > > (Wait… is this a bad thing? 😕 ) The ARA (Americans with Ruler Allergies) would no doubt approve. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/97 "2019-01-29T12:09:21Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > [Architects! Tell me your wall design plans for this section of the Rio Grande!](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Zapata,+TX+78076/@26.8943682,-99.3133729,12.75z) > \ John, John, John. When will you realize facts don’t matter to the current occupant of the White House or to his supporters? We knew that the very first day when he proclaimed that the crowd for his inauguration was the biggest _evah_ when it demonstrably [was not](https://www.factcheck.org/2017/01/the-facts-on-crowd-size/). ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/98 "2019-01-29T12:42:58Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > [Architects! Tell me your wall design plans for this section of the Rio Grande!](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Zapata,+TX+78076/@26.8943682,-99.3133729,12.75z) Please take your links to Google Maps to the Pit. Yes, Google Maps once had nice features and maybe still does. But my clicks were ineffective, and I rapidly lost interest. I thought you might be speaking of [border stretches like this one.](https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4186/34614235325_ff73218daa_b.jpg) But if your link points to an interestingly-shaped border I’m too stupid and or ignorant to get Google to show it to me. :o ---
**Author:** ![Ancient\_Erudite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ancient\_Erudite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ancient_Erudite)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/99 "2019-01-29T13:29:33Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > That’s still coast to coast. Pacific Ocean to the Gulf Of Mexico. > It’s in the GOP platform, placed there sometime during the campaign. Where did the idea come from other than Trump? Coast to coast implies West to East. Oceans, not Ocean to a river. Its shocking to see how quickly some here glance over the crimes against USA citizens that Illegal aliens commit. I get it; you CAN’T hold any moral ground when I show you the victims number over 100,000. It’s a disgrace and needs to be addressed. Border security with a wall is the answer. People asked for data, and I provided it to form one state ( Texas ). Should I look for more from CA, NM, and AZ? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440/100 "2019-01-29T13:34:38Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > Coast to coast implies West to East. Oceans, not Ocean to a river. Its shocking to see how quickly some here glance over the crimes against USA citizens that Illegal aliens commit. I get it; you CAN’T hold any moral ground when I show you the victims number over 100,000. It’s a disgrace and needs to be addressed. Border security with a wall is the answer. > > People asked for data, and I provided it to form one state ( Texas ). Should I look for more from CA, NM, and AZ? Hilarious! You sound like a character from Dragon Ball. It’s over 100,000!!! Aaaaaaaaaaaa!!! Quick go Super Trumpian! What if it were only 80,000? Or 60,000? Or 40,000? Or 20,000? Or 2,000? Or 2? I’d list 1, but that would just be silly. What’s the cutoff? You seem to never want to answer than question. I wonder why? P.s. - I already know why. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mighty-air-traffic-controllers/828440.md?page=6)