# The minimum military force required to defeat a kaiju or Godzilla **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 17, 2016, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164 "2016-07-17T23:17:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/1 "2016-07-17T23:17:33Z")
From movies like \*Pacific Rim \*and the \*Godzilla \*franchise, it seems that the usage of Jaegers is unnecessary and actually rather ineffective. If we assume Godzilla and kaiju to be anatomically similar to most creatures (i.e., have organs, blood, a brain, etc.) then it seems like four or five JDAMs would be perfectly sufficient to deal such a creature mortal injury. Yes, the kaijus can be taller than skyscrapers, but from a mathematical standpoint isn’t it rather akin to a human being being hit by several small grenades? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/2 "2016-07-17T23:51:33Z")
The only thing similar to a Jaeger in the Godzilla franchise is Mechagodzilla/Kiryu (and then only the Showa and Millenium incarnations - the Heisei version was a weapon not specifically intended to be used against other kaiju). While Mechagodzilla is pretty invariably the loser when he fights Godzilla (he makes a better showing when he’s the hero, but…), he’s still more successful than any conventional, or nuclear, weapons. Successful weapons against kaiju in the Godzilla franchise: The Oxygen Destroyer. MASERs. Other Kaiju. Specifically not effective: Conventional and nuclear weapons. ‘But, science!’ you cry. Real world science has less than zero to do with kaiju movies. Mothra and Battra are moths the size of jumbo jets with weaponized wing dust, Godzilla is a mutated dinosaur who shoots deadly radiation from his mouth - they quite explicitly don’t operate under normal physics or biology. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/3 "2016-07-17T23:58:47Z")
And I just noted that this is in GQ not CS, so, let’s put aside the whole ‘you’re asking a question that’s canonically answered in the films’ and focus on ‘you’re asking a question that doesn’t make logical sense’. Creatures that in any significant way resemble kaiju are an impossibility - even ignoring their superpowers, having a terrestrial animal anywhere near as large as any but the smallest kaiju isn’t going to happen - as far as we understand biology and physics. So you can’t answer the question using real world science. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/4 "2016-07-18T00:03:51Z")
**Moderator Action** A lot of questions like these boil down to factual questions about the capabilities of certain types of weapons, and are therefore ok for GQ, but in this case I think there’s a little too much speculation and opinion involved. Since this is more of a weapon vs. monster hypothetical than a discussion of the films and/or lore involved, let’s give IMHO a try. Moving thread from General Questions to In My Humble Opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/5 "2016-07-18T00:34:08Z")
What if Godzilla were real? Defending against Godzilla > **[Could the U.S. defend itself against a REAL Godzilla attack?](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2625136/Could-U-S-defend-against-REAL-Godzilla-attack-Dont-worry-military-plan.html)** > > In preparation for the release of the new Godzilla movie this summer, the Smithsonian Air & Space museum have spoken to military personnel to see how they would respond to a real-life attack by the lizard monster. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/6 "2016-07-18T01:03:35Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > And I just noted that this is in GQ not CS, so, let’s put aside the whole ‘you’re asking a question that’s canonically answered in the films’ and focus on ‘you’re asking a question that doesn’t make logical sense’. > > Creatures that in any significant way resemble kaiju are an impossibility - even ignoring their superpowers, having a terrestrial animal anywhere near as large as any but the smallest kaiju isn’t going to happen - as far as we understand biology and physics. So you can’t answer the question using real world science. I know full well that the monsters cannot exist in biology, but if we selectively hand-wave away biology but not physics - then aren’t Godzilla or kaiju essentially several-ton masses of flesh and blood, and isn’t it quite reasonable, from a physics standpoint, to be able to figure the effects of several JDAMs on that (assuming the JDAMs detonate directly on or near the creature - I know soft flesh might not set them off the way hard concrete would?) Sounds like a straightforward extrapolation matter. I think several JDAMs would reasonably cause massive trauma, followed by hemorrhage, and possibly massive cerebral harm as well. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/7 "2016-07-18T01:15:59Z")
Grenades explosive effects aren’t all that deadly unless you do something like lay on it to contain the force. Would the shrapnel from something like a JDAM penetrate to vital bits? Would the wound be enough from a JDAM to make it bleed out? It’s certainly worth a first shot since you could fly at sufficient height to be out of monster ranged attack distance. It might be “fun” to try long range guided weapons in the mouth when they invariably roar. The bunker buster delayed fuse bombs might be worth a try but getting a square hit to penetrate instead of glance off is an issue. Head shots with Fuel Air/Thermobaric explosives might be next to try. Lower explosive pressure over a wide area might be enough to damage lungs without penetrating. The tanker in me would want to try KE penetrators. If the monster skin wasn’t as tough as armor grade steel you could be looking at some pretty deep penetrations to vital bits. How deep would something that can penetrate around a yard of RHA go? 😃 An obstacle reduction round might be an option too. With a hardened steel nose and delay fuse, they are designed to penetrate into concrete obstacles before exploding. It wouldn’t be as big an explosion but having it potentially go off under the skin contains the force. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/8 "2016-07-18T01:40:12Z")
The UGM-133 Trident II missile travels at 13,000mph. If you took out all the explosives and replaced them with depleted uranium and just aimed it at Godzilla’s stomach I doubt Godzilla would be around much longer. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/9 "2016-07-18T02:00:03Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I know full well that the monsters cannot exist in biology, but if we selectively hand-wave away biology but not physics - then aren’t Godzilla or kaiju essentially several-ton masses of flesh and blood, and isn’t it quite reasonable, from a physics standpoint, to be able to figure the effects of several JDAMs on that (assuming the JDAMs detonate directly on or near the creature - I know soft flesh might not set them off the way hard concrete would?) Biology can’t ignore physics! Simply put, a Kaiju-sized lump of muscle, skin, connective tissue, and bone would have the structural integrity of a jello mold. A JDAM would certainly make a mess of a rotting puddle of meat, but so would the sun or a gust of wind. ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/10 "2016-07-18T13:13:18Z")
> [@lazybratsche](#): > > Biology can’t ignore physics! Simply put, a Kaiju-sized lump of muscle, skin, connective tissue, and bone would have the structural integrity of a jello mold. A JDAM would certainly make a mess of a rotting puddle of meat, but so would the sun or a gust of wind. So the creature exists in a special theoretical environment that addresses all conditions that would prevent its existance. Like turning off friction for physics hypotheticals, turn off gravity or whatever for godzilla. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/11 "2016-07-18T13:19:53Z")
Given that multiple militaries have consistently failed to defeat Godzilla with conventional or nuclear weapons, I would say the likely answer is “none.” ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/12 "2016-07-18T13:57:10Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > So the creature exists in a special theoretical environment that addresses all conditions that would prevent its existance. Like turning off friction for physics hypotheticals, turn off gravity or whatever for godzilla. There are still a lot of questions that we just don’t have the answers to before you’d get a meaningful answer. We turn off friction for physics to make the questions easier, and recognize that extrapolating their answers to a friction-filled universe will have some small changes in the results. In the case of Godzilla, we don’t have a good real world equivalent. What do you want to use? An elephant? Well, you don’t need a giant robot to kill one of those. A crocodile? A blue whale? All of those can be killed without robotic assistance. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/13 "2016-07-18T14:58:08Z")
A blue whale is a pretty good real life example, inasmuch as they’re bloody huge. And clearly they’re not the hardest things in the world to kill, whalers can do it. If you could somehow make Godzilla work from an anatomical perspective, you could kill him with a tank gun. It’s shoot right through him just as a bullet shoots through a person. The scales work out pretty well in that comparison. Bang, he’s dead. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/14 "2016-07-18T15:02:11Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > Given that multiple militaries have consistently failed to defeat Godzilla with conventional or nuclear weapons, I would say the likely answer is “none.” Godzilla \*was \*killed conventionally. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/15 "2016-07-18T15:13:35Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > The tanker in me would want to try KE penetrators. If the monster skin wasn’t as tough as armor grade steel you could be looking at some pretty deep penetrations to vital bits. How deep would something that can penetrate around a yard of RHA go? I’d think you’d still have to have a pretty large diameter KE round; a 120mm APFSDS would probably penetrate fairly deep, but relative to the size of the creature, would be like being hit by a needle. If you assume that Godzilla is 350 feet high, a 16" gun round is roughly the same diameter relative to his height, as a 7mm round would be to a 6’ person, and is in the same ballpark muzzle velocity-wise as a rifle bullet is. I’d figure a broadside from one of the museum battleships might potentially do a number on Godzilla. ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/16 "2016-07-18T17:13:02Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > In the case of Godzilla, we don’t have a good real world equivalent. What do you want to use? An elephant? Well, you don’t need a giant robot to kill one of those. A crocodile? A blue whale? All of those can be killed without robotic assistance. skin like an alligator, as thick as it would be if an alligator was enlarged to 350 feet, and it’s skin and organs grew and thickened proportionally. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/17 "2016-07-18T17:37:11Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Godzilla \*was \*killed conventionally. Which Godzilla? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/18 "2016-07-18T17:53:41Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > The UGM-133 Trident II missile travels at 13,000mph. If you took out all the explosives and replaced them with depleted uranium and just aimed it at Godzilla’s stomach I doubt Godzilla would be around much longer. Thats what I am thinking - a hyper velocity missile with a hardened warhead. Make dozens if not hundreds and have them deployed near the coasts. Godzilla doesnt move very fast and should be an easy target. Another idea is a large caliber rail gun. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/19 "2016-07-18T17:56:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which Godzilla? 1998 Roland Emmerich directed version was killed by missiles from F-18s. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164/20 "2016-07-19T11:22:24Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > 1998 Roland Emmerich directed version was killed by missiles from F-18s. You mean Jurassic Park 3? Was not worthy of the name. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-minimum-military-force-required-to-defeat-a-kaiju-or-godzilla/760164.md?page=2)