# The Mole People **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [January 9, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666 "2004-01-09T16:12:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![yaggayagga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7c8e57/32.png) [@yaggayagga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yaggayagga)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666/1 "2004-01-09T16:12:36Z")
I’m very pleased that the film ‘Dark Days’ was mentioned in today’s Straight Dope, in reference to New York’s underground dwellers. Anyone with an iota of compassion would be well served to watch this film. It also features a captivating soundtrack courtesy DJ Spooky. Regards from Canada. –Greg ---
**Author:** ![dasgupta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@dasgupta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasgupta)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666/2 "2004-01-09T18:42:19Z")
Regarding today’s column, [Are there really “Mole People” living under the streets of New York City?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040109.html), I think ol’ Cec may have been had. I’m a subwayaphile, so this is a topic near and dear, but I’ve read _The Mole People_ myself and found plenty of errors. I’ve been to many of the abandoned stations which Jennifer Toth claims holds throngs of homeless. All I found - with my tour groups - were lots of graffiti and dust. Either Toth’s informants were pulling her leg, passing along stories, or just plain lying. While I have no doubt that the descriptions of many of the “Mole People” are true, the settings are way off. (Toth’s not the only one. Kurt Vonnegut speaks of **thirteen** levels below Grand Central Terminal in _Jailbird,_ but at least that made no pretense of being non-fiction.) The best critique on _The Mole People_ I’ve found is written by Joseph Brennan and can be found [here.](http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/mole-people.html) Incidentally, the rest of the site is great for pointing out other abandoned stations. ---
**Author:** ![culture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@culture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/culture)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666/3 "2004-01-09T19:36:09Z")
I think Cecil should be castigated for sidestepping the question. Straight Dope, indeed! I think it is obvious that what the OP is really getting at is questioning the reports of half-human/half-mole creatures that are reportedly inhabit the underground area of New York City, similar to those CHUD creatures that the Delta Forces cleared out about 10-15 years ago. Myself, I don’t find it hard to believe that some of Monsanto’s experiments escaped and are hiding underground (It is well known that biotech companies are developing human-mole, human-shrew and human-gopher crosses to act at satellite controlled pest control for root crops). Myself, I feel kind of sorry for them, because New York is very likely to be destroyed by a nuclear blast in the coming UN attempted overthrow of the free people of the USA. Then again, they are deep underground. So what is it Cecil? Are you willing to admit that the mole creatures exist (or at least investigate with an open mind), or are you going to stay part of the cover-up? ---
**Author:** ![Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f0a364/32.png) [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rube_E.Tewesday)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666/4 "2004-01-09T19:53:19Z")
Didn’t \*\*Under Dog \*\* fight mighty battles against the Mole People, over 30 years ago? Seriously, though, given the battering the book has taken, I’m surprised Cecil didn’t have something a bit more solid than “Sure, it sounds like B.S., but I’ve talked to her and she seems sweet.” (Even allowing for his space limitations, which I’m aware of. Some of the stories from the book could have gone and been replaced by analysis). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666/5 "2004-01-09T22:10:33Z")
[Superman and the Mole Men](http://imdb.com/title/tt0044091/), arguably the first Superman feature film. Anyhoo, if there are disparities between Toth’s account and observation, it could easily be explained by crackdowns by police and/or railroad officials. By describing the pseudo-communites in detail, Toth may have inadvertantly encouraged their elimination. In any case, Singer’s movie shows some pretty wild stuff. Though the numbers of “mole people” may have been reduced by police action (or possibly the use of better anti-psychotic drugs to treat the mentally and reintegrate them to society), it’s clear that some people are still clinging to tenuous survival among New York’s rusting infrastructure. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666/6 "2004-01-09T22:25:18Z")
> [@](#): > > By describing the pseudo-communites in detail, Toth may have inadvertantly encouraged their elimination. Or relocation. And isn’t anyone going to mention _Beauty and the Beast?_ ---
**Author:** ![SirRay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@SirRay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirRay)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666/7 "2004-01-09T23:47:54Z")
_The Mole People who torment us so, are neither moles nor people… **Believe it or not!** _ \* \*Post-Apocalyptic Comic Fun-Pak (or something like that) ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666/8 "2004-01-10T02:35:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John W. Kennedy \* > \*\*And isn’t anyone going to mention _Beauty and the Beast?_ \*\* Beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666/9 "2004-01-10T02:36:31Z")
What, no one’s going to mention the truly off-the-wall (under-the floor?) descriptions of New York Underground in the sequel to The Relic, **Reliquary**? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666/10 "2004-01-10T03:50:51Z")
What about the Mole Man and his minions, introduced in the never-to-be-forgotten Fantastic Four #1? ---
**Author:** ![Beauty\_Personified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e480ec/32.png) [@Beauty\_Personified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beauty_Personified)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666/11 "2004-01-10T06:08:23Z")
Then there’s the inhabitants of “Old New York” in Futurama. Of course, that’s 1000 years into the future… ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666/12 "2004-01-10T14:02:20Z")
another “beat me to it” BEAUTY AND THE BEAST ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666/13 "2004-01-10T14:04:15Z")
but I WILL be the first to mention Harlan Ellison’s creepy-ass story CROATOAN!!! Which I had the privilege of first reading in comic form! Ewww! ---
**Author:** ![Shrinking\_Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Shrinking\_Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shrinking_Violet)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666/14 "2004-01-10T14:37:27Z")
I found [this TV documentary](http://csf.colorado.edu/forums/homeless/2001/msg00415.html) to be pretty convincing. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666/15 "2004-01-10T15:36:39Z")
Where’s John Agar and Hugh Beaumont when you need them? ---
**Author:** ![Sunshine\_and\_Smiles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Sunshine\_and\_Smiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunshine_and_Smiles)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666/16 "2004-01-10T15:54:22Z")
Doesn’t anyone else want to know more about that Dark Angel character!? That was the coolest part of the column! ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666/17 "2004-01-10T17:09:08Z")
I dont like whiners–but, Cecil, I’m gonna let myself complain here. Like Rube E Teusday said above, it’s kinda lame just to say, " I talked with her and see seems honest". How ‘bout doin’ some real journalism, based on verifiable facts? Surely the local mental health agencies who deal with the homeless would have some paperwork on the issue. or the police–if there were people down there,but they are now gone due to police crackdowns, etc–then there must be police records of the arrests and court cases. City engineering offices have to maintain the pipes and cables that the mole people supposedly tap into–have there been any engineering reports filed? Reports of vandalism ?etc, etc, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2004, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mole-people/223666/18 "2004-01-12T14:31:36Z")
_Reliquary_ was great! In a ridiculously over the top way. Another book with exotic undergound scenes is _Faces in the Crowd_ by **William Marshall**. It’s a detective story set in the late 19th C and the police stumble on an ornate abandoned private underground station… The style of writing is at least as ornate as the features described. [www.forgotten-ny.com](http://www.forgotten-ny.com) also has a lot on old subway stations, etc.