# The molested grow up to be molesters. Really? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 14, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457 "2009-08-14T22:17:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/41 "2011-03-03T20:51:32Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > No, he has to maintain the anomity of his underaged clients. Vachss went into law to represent children who were victims of sex abuse, though at the time he did not realize he would have to defend them. He and his wife Alice are acknowledgd as the leading experts in the field, and I believe him. Ok. That’s awesome. If he wants to persuade a skeptic like me, he should lay off the ‘all dressed up in a sailor suit’ crap. Maybe he can think of some other ways of adding credibility. I mean in ways that don’t include violating lawyer/client confidentiality. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/42 "2011-03-03T21:02:43Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Ok. That’s awesome. If he wants to persuade a skeptic like me, he should lay off the ‘all dressed up in a sailor suit’ crap. > Maybe he can think of some other ways of adding credibility. I mean in ways that don’t include violating lawyer/client confidentiality. Agreed. I can’t tell either way how true or not this story was, but as a writer, Vachss irritates the crap out of me. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/43 "2011-03-03T21:09:36Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Agreed. I can’t tell either way how true or not this story was, but as a writer, Vachss irritates the crap out of me. Yeah. I’m not saying it’s a lie. I’m saying it sounds like a lie. [Heh.](http://images.partyamerica.com/images/products/en_us/detail/P321258_dt.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/44 "2011-03-03T22:51:32Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > That whole jump off sounds made up. Does the author provide cites for accounts like this? Andrew Vachss has devoted his life to the protection of abused children. His career includes U.S. Public Health Service investigator, social caseworker, overseas war-zone relief and community organizer. He also directed a maximum-security institution for violent juvenile offenders. Now an attorney and a novelist, he has spent the last 15 years in courts throughout the country representing children—some of them juvenile offenders—who have been brutalized, criminally neglected and sexually assaulted. Tough-minded, fiercely committed and streetwise, Vachss has been a tireless advocate for these children, both in his legal practice and in his books—including his most recent novel, “Blossom,” to be published this month by Knopf. In this article, Andrew Vachss takes a hard look at a far-reaching consequence of child abuse and what we can do about it. You missed that he was the kids lawyer? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/45 "2011-03-03T23:03:28Z")
As a writer he’s just annoying sensationalistic. He’s just trying so damned hard to shock us, it’s a little cringe inducing. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/46 "2011-03-03T23:55:00Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Andrew Vachss has devoted his life to the protection of abused children. His career includes U.S. Public Health Service investigator, social caseworker, overseas war-zone relief and community organizer. He also directed a maximum-security institution for violent juvenile offenders. Now an attorney and a novelist, he has spent the last 15 years in courts throughout the country representing children—some of them juvenile offenders—who have been brutalized, criminally neglected and sexually assaulted. > > Tough-minded, fiercely committed and streetwise, Vachss has been a tireless advocate for these children, both in his legal practice and in his books—including his most recent novel, “Blossom,” to be published this month by Knopf. In this article, Andrew Vachss takes a hard look at a far-reaching consequence of child abuse and what we can do about it… Yeah, so the thing is, that story still sounds made up. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/47 "2011-03-04T00:25:48Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > I heard of a story about a couple that had grown up in an ultra-fundamentalist religious environment where sex was not explained at all, and the couple eventually had to be told by a doctor why they had had so many childless years… > [@Ludovic](#): > > …and when the couple came back, the man smacked the doctor right in the jaw! I always liked this joke: A young woman accepts a proposal of method from a (Frenchman/Greek/any other group with a reputation for sexual oddity). She’s told by her mother "I know you love him, but you know how perverse _those_ people are! If he ever tells you to do something…different, look him in the eyes and tell him ‘No, I won’t do that!’ " So they get married, and things are fine for six months or so. Then at last he finally suggests they do something different in the bedroom, and just like her mother said she says “No, I won’t do that!” And he replies, “But darling; don’t you _want_ to have children?” ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/48 "2011-03-04T00:49:57Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > I know its wikipedia, but this is worth a read: > > [Child sexual abuse - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse#Causal_factors) > > The idea that abusers were abused themselves as the main explanation for perpetrators has been heavily challenged and was based mostly on retrospective studies with abusers claiming it as an excuse for their behaviour in forensic settings. Just the point I was going to make. The notion that molesters do so because they were uniformly victims themselves has largely been based on studies that rely on the self report of offenders in forensic setting where they have every incentive to not be truthful: an offender who claims that he himself was victimized gets to shift at least part of the blame from his behavior elsewhere (“I’m a victim, too!”). In a series of studies that compared the responses of offenders who were being polygraphed to the responses of offenders who weren’t, the polygraphed offenders reported being victimized themselves as children at approximately half of the rate that the offenders who weren’t polygraphed. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/49 "2011-03-04T01:00:41Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Poor Bob. He doesn’t know it but he’s basically been victimized twice. Once as a child and second by a prejudgemental society. (In this instance, my sister. I say society because I get a gut feeling she’s not alone in thinking like this. Not by a long shot.) Definitely not. I’ve seen this sentiment expressed by several people. Some males who have been molested as a child might not realize it, but I’d suspect that others will realize it and as a result won’t be willing to mention the abuse (even to or perhaps especially to a mental health specialist). ---
**Author:** ![Marc\_Xenos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Marc\_Xenos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marc_Xenos)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/50 "2011-03-04T02:04:04Z")
A couple centuries ago, it was considered “scientific” that children born out of wedlock would grow up to procreate “substandard” offspring, themselves. Therefore, anyone without proof of proper parentage was prohibited by law from owning property, which also forbade their voting privilege. It’s generally referred to as Eugenics and is a reprehensible philosophy that concludes human intelligence is a myth, and that all people can only react as mindless animals to their genetics or environment. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/51 "2011-03-04T02:12:51Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > No, he has to maintain the anomity of his underaged clients. Vachss went into law to represent children who were victims of sex abuse, though at the time he did not realize he would have to defend them. He and his wife Alice are acknowledgd as the leading experts in the field, and I believe him. I must admit that I have a hard time believing that an abuser this young could have done that without being almost immediately caught. ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/52 "2011-03-04T09:39:27Z")
> [@](#): > > The idea that abusers were abused themselves as the main explanation for perpetrators has been heavily challenged and was based mostly on retrospective studies with abusers claiming it as an excuse for their behaviour in forensic settings. Unfortunately as said already this myth is still commonly believed and often has caused great distress to sexual abuse survivors. On the OTHER hand, when females are sexually abused (ie rape) and don’t get treatment they CAN get into the mentality " Oh I’ll have sex with lots and lots of people to “heal” from my abuse. I can “heal” by" taking control" of my sexuality." I could totally see an abuser, especially an abuser who is stunted emotionally going down that path of thought. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/53 "2011-03-04T14:09:33Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I must admit that I have a hard time believing that an abuser this young could have done that without being almost immediately caught. He had his age going for him–Who would believe a nine year old child would sexually molest a younger child? ETA: Everyone here wants to believe that molested children molesting younger children does not happen. Well, it does and it’s one of the saddest effects of child molestation. Vachss was the first one to say “Let’s not confuse sickening behavior with sick behavior.” Adults who molest children are sickening; children who molest children are sick. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/54 "2011-03-04T14:18:36Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > ETA: Everyone here wants to believe that molested children molesting younger children does not happen. Well, it does and it’s one of the saddest effects of child molestation. Please change brushes, that one tickles. I’ve got no problem believing a nine year old being an abuser, sexual or otherwise. But I do agree with the people who said the story was overwrought. Si non e vero, e ben trovato… “it may not be true, but it is well-told”: well, in this case, it may be true, but it is badly told. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/55 "2011-03-04T15:17:17Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > …Everyone here wants to believe that molested children molesting younger children does not happen. Well, it does and it’s one of the saddest effects of child molestation… I have no problem believing that a child can molest a child. I am quite certain that it happens. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/56 "2011-03-04T22:41:33Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > He had his age going for him–Who would believe a nine year old child would sexually molest a younger child? > > ETA: Everyone here wants to believe that molested children molesting younger children does not happen. Well, it does and it’s one of the saddest effects of child molestation. > . I certainly believe that a kid could molest another kid. I also believe that a 9 yo kid wouldn’t appear suspicious, and could pull this trick. Once. What I’m unwilling to believe is that a 9 yo kid could repeatedly do that without being caught. It’s not like he could for instance drive his car to another town where nobody would be aware of the molestation he commited, and of the trick he used, for instance. And there are many ways he could have been caught in the act. Some 9 yo could be bright but they aren’t cautious enough to plan for/prevent repeatedly an adult intervention in such a situation. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/57 "2011-03-04T22:58:34Z")
I have no problem with believing in children abusing other children, but it reads too ‘neatly’ to me too. One off maybe, repeatedly for months on end without getting caught given how obviously you’d expect him to stand out and word getting out, Im dubious. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/58 "2011-03-04T23:09:32Z")
And don’t forget the immaculate sailor suit. Haaa! Come on. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/59 "2011-03-05T10:07:42Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I certainly believe that a kid could molest another kid. I also believe that a 9 yo kid wouldn’t appear suspicious, and could pull this trick. Once. > > What I’m unwilling to believe is that a 9 yo kid could repeatedly do that without being caught. But he WAS caught. That’s the whole point. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457/60 "2011-03-05T12:21:30Z")
…a sailor suit??? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-molested-grow-up-to-be-molesters-really/506457.md?page=4)