# The Monkees: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame potential? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 16, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277 "2014-07-16T15:44:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/41 "2014-07-17T00:07:07Z")
Dude. Don’t talk shit on The Splits. Just don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/42 "2014-07-17T00:09:23Z")
Everyone has their own list of performers in the RRHOF who should be in but aren’t, who shouldn’t be in but are, and who make us say “They aren’t rock and roll.” So I’m open to a deal. After the Moody Blues and Paul Revere & The Raiders get in as performers, and Jimmy Webb gets in as a writer, the Monkees can walk right in. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/43 "2014-07-17T00:12:55Z")
Put it this way: Look at the name. It’s not the Rock and Roll Hall of Excellence; it’s the Hall of Fame. And nobody can deny that the Monkees are famous. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/44 "2014-07-17T00:41:12Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > Not to forget, they also gave Jimi Hendrix his first break, when they made him their opening act. > > And IIRC (and I may not), they were also the first group to use a Moog synthesizer. IIRC, they’re the first – and only – group to have four albums hit #1 in one year. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/45 "2014-07-17T00:48:16Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > IIRC, they’re the first – and only – group to have four albums hit #1 in one year. Looked at another way, there was a grand total of eight weeks in 1967 when the #1 album wasn’t either _Sgt. Pepper_ or a Monkees album. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/46 "2014-07-17T00:50:52Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I voted to let the people vote on it. I would vote no, but that’s me. If I had to pick a favorite Monkees song, it would be Daydream Believer, and of course they didn’t write it. If songwriting were a _sine qua non_ for performance electees, you’d have to clear out half the plaques. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/47 "2014-07-17T00:53:58Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > The Monkees had catchy songs but they had no lasting influence on R&R and if you have to go to the trouble to point out that “On these two albums they even played their own instruments!”, your argument is already lost. Don’t get me wrong, I really love The Monkees. They’re a ton of fun. But they don’t belong in the upper echelon, as it’s defined by those at the RRHOF. That’s my stance, essentially. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/48 "2014-07-17T01:02:47Z")
Definitely belong in the HOF in my book. Beyond the music the TV show and Head, they were really a great band to see live. I caught the the 1986 and 2012 tours (both Mike-less and Davy-less) and they were a blast. The shows were just as fun and the crowds were just as enthusiastic as any of the Big Name/Hall of Fame Acts that I have seen. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/49 "2014-07-17T03:09:25Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > If songwriting were a _sine qua non_ for performance electees, you’d have to clear out half the plaques. Yes, that’s true. That’s why I say: Let the peoples vote. The thing is, with most HOF bands, one can hear that the band didn’t write this or that song, and it may be a surprise. But with the Monkees, no matter what song is picked- even if all the songs are picked- and one hears that the Monkees didn’t write it, the response is going to be: Well, yeah. Of course they didn’t write that. It would be surprising if the opposite happened, and your favorite Monkees song actually happened to be written by the Monkees. So, I vote no. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/50 "2014-07-17T03:15:34Z")
> [@MrKnowItAll](#): > > Their sole movie, _Head_, accomplished being a solid, entertaining psychedelia movie; something the Beatles failed at miserably. 😕How did The Beatles fail miserably? _Yellow Submarine_ is a brilliant psychedelic movie. You could argue that The Beatles really had little to do with actually making it (apart from the soundtrack, and financing), but in that case, they did not attempt, and so did not fail, to make a psychedelic movie. _Magical Mystery Tour_ is crap (apart from the music), it is true, but that was a TV show. I can’t bring myself to care who gets into the RARHOF. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/51 "2014-07-17T03:53:08Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > _Magical Mystery Tour_ is crap (apart from the music), it is true, but that was a TV show. It’s a film made for television. And awful by any name. I’m no fan of Head either. It’s mostly unwatchable. ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/52 "2014-07-17T19:51:51Z")
Will they be inducted? Never. Should they be inducted? Very on the borderline. Does it matter? Not a bit. What do Kraftwerk, Nile Rodgers (both as part of Chic and a producer), Slayer, Black Flag, Juan Atkins (father of techno), and NWA all have in common? They are some of the most influential artists in history. And none of them are in the Hall of Fame, while acts like the Mamas and Papas and the Lovin’ Spoonful are. ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/53 "2014-07-17T20:56:04Z")
> [@installLSC](#): > > Will they be inducted? Never. Should they be inducted? Very on the borderline. Does it matter? Not a bit. What do Kraftwerk, Nile Rodgers (both as part of Chic and a producer), Slayer, Black Flag, Juan Atkins (father of techno), and NWA all have in common? They are some of the most influential artists in history. And none of them are in the Hall of Fame, while acts like the Mamas and Papas and the Lovin’ Spoonful are. This statement is proof positive that when you grew up and the kind of music you like most influences your view…and not exactly to the objective side. I grew up with 60s music, and can mount a very strong argument as to why The Mamas and Papas and the Lovin’ Spoonful are RRHOF-worthy artists who made a lot of great music that was different from anything that came before. You did not, but instead (I’m guessing) grew up with many of the artists you mention, and you no doubt can mount similar arguments for them. And though for the most part their music means nothing to me, I wouldn’t presume to sneer, however mildly, at their accomplishments or compare them unfavorably to the artists I treasure. All in all, I tend to agree with those who think RRHOF arguments consume way more energy than they merit. Because of the Hall’s origins, it will always be rigged against certain types of artists (and in favor of others). I think the museum itself is a very worthy exercise. The awards/membership angle…well, I’m not against the idea of giving some sort of recognition out. But I’m secure enough in my own views of what matters in rock ‘n’ roll that I don’t really need them validated by Jann Wenner. ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/54 "2014-07-17T21:08:42Z")
Actually I never heard of any of these acts outside of NWA before my college years (born 1975), and don’t care about Kraftwerk and Slayer musically. That doesn’t mean they basically invented or helped invent their genres, and are still highly influential. There are generations of punks who were inspired to make music by Black Flag, as were extreme metal acts influenced by Slayer. When’s the last time you heard anyone who cited the Lovin’ Spoonful as the reason they made music? My argument is as much against genre bias as anything. You’re in a hardcore punk/extreme metal/dance music/hardcore rap act? Good luck getting into the RRHOF, no matter how good or important your music is. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/55 "2014-07-17T21:33:04Z")
> [@Srsly\_Dad](#): > > No worries for the Monkees, ZZ Top owns that marker. Your user name is perfect. > [@Morgyn](#): > > Not to forget, they also gave Jimi Hendrix his first break, when they made him their opening act. Well, not exactly. That tour was a disaster and Hendrix was fired eventually. ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/56 "2014-07-18T00:20:07Z")
> [@installLSC](#): > > Actually I never heard of any of these acts outside of NWA before my college years (born 1975), and don’t care about Kraftwerk and Slayer musically. That doesn’t mean they basically invented or helped invent their genres, and are still highly influential. There are generations of punks who were inspired to make music by Black Flag, as were extreme metal acts influenced by Slayer. When’s the last time you heard anyone who cited the Lovin’ Spoonful as the reason they made music? Your question could be asked about a great many artists who are in the RRHOF. That’s because influence is one, but by no means the ONLY reason artists are inducted — which you might have realized if you had bothered to read one of the earlier posts: > [@](#): > > We shall consider factors such as an artist’s musical influence on other artists, length and depth of career and the body of work, innovation and superiority in style and technique, but musical excellence shall be the essential qualification of induction. The Spoonful and the Mamas and Papas meet the majority of these criteria with ease. > [@](#): > > My argument is as much against genre bias as anything. You’re in a hardcore punk/extreme metal/dance music/hardcore rap act? Good luck getting into the RRHOF, no matter how good or important your music is. I don’t disagree with what you’ve said here. But I would argue that “importance” is very much in the ear of the beholder. If you’re deeply into those genres, then yes, music made within them is very important to you, regardless of its popularity. But music history takes the long view, and it’s hard to say how some artists and genres will be viewed 50 or 100 years from now. Artists from the 50s and 60s have a bit of a leg up, because many of them truly were navigating uncharted waters in terms of there being a precedent for what they were doing. The more years that elapse from then to now, the smaller likelihood there is that artists will come up with music that is truly startlingly innovative. It’s not their fault that there are so many other possible influences that have gone before them to choose from. (Also, let’s remember that “innovative” doesn’t automatically = “good.”) ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/57 "2014-07-18T03:11:03Z")
> [@installLSC](#): > > My argument is as much against genre bias as anything. You’re in a hardcore punk/extreme metal/dance music/hardcore rap act? Good luck getting into the RRHOF, no matter how good or important your music is. _Shouldn’t_ there be a bias towards the genre of rock and roll in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/58 "2014-07-18T04:38:33Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > What a coincidence, I lean towards Yes as well. 🆒 > > In other words, there is a long long line of much more deserving artists ahead of them Call me when one single Yes song is known to anyone younger than Yes’s first generation of fans. Once the original wave of Yes fans die out, no one will have any idea who Yes ever were. The Monkees are _still_ accumulating fans. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/59 "2014-07-18T04:46:30Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Call me when one single Yes song is known to anyone younger than Yes’s first generation of fans. > Once the original wave of Yes fans die out, no one will have any idea who Yes ever were. I was born in 1978, and I bought my first Yes album (_Fragile_) in the late '90s. They’re now my favourite band. So I guess that counters your point above. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277/60 "2014-07-18T04:47:49Z")
I understand that the Monkeed have alleged that Jann Wenner has blacklisted them. Ultimately I believe it’s meaningless. Given the variety of acts that have been inducted there’s no serious argument to be made that it’s only for the best. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > They did three albums - _Headquarters_, _Pisces, Aquarius and Jone Ltd_, and _The Birds, the Bees and the Monkees_ - on which they played their own instruments and controlled their production and contributed more than a third of songs. I thought Headquarters was really the only album on which they all played instruments on all the songs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-monkees-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-potential/693277.md?page=4)