# The moral standards of Wikileaks' critics **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 3, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842 "2010-12-03T19:19:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/21 "2010-12-05T01:49:26Z")
Cheney, Bush and Libby deliberately released information to harm a specific person who’s husband did not play along with the program for war that Bush wanted. Wilson gave an honest appraisal of the Yellow Cake. When the Bushies did not like it, they specifically tried to do harm to him and his wife. the fact that they would do harm to others in the agency at the same time did not matter to them. Assange believes, apparently that too much of the actions a government takes are kept secret without a good reason. The interplay between diplomats would be better if they had an inkling that it would become public. Maybe it would improve the discourse and make them more honest. They are not the same thing at all. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/22 "2010-12-08T18:33:48Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Cheney, Bush and Libby deliberately released information to harm a specific person who’s husband did not play along with the program for war that Bush wanted. Wilson gave an honest appraisal of the Yellow Cake. When the Bushies did not like it, they specifically tried to do harm to him and his wife. the fact that they would do harm to others in the agency at the same time did not matter to them… CITE? All of this is false. It was demonstrated that Armitage released the name, and inadvertently, at that, and it wasn’t a crime. Why do people like you continually repeat this obvious, proven falsehood? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/23 "2010-12-08T19:03:51Z")
> [@Implicit](#): > > I’m not sure hypocrisy is the correct diagnosis, it seems to me that the problem is that some have accepted the premise that there is an expectation of secrecy where there really isn’t. In this case, the critics are presuming that all communications taken on behalf of the government should be secret by default and I think you can make an argument that secrecy applies by exception, not default. > > Relevant excerpt from the cited article: I am a weak critic of the leaks. I think that there are legitimate needs for confidentiality and secrecy. For example, the President’s advisor’s rely on confidentiality in order to feel free to give him the most honest appraisals they can. If they knew that their memo’s would become public, they may not be fully forth coming in the future. For example, they may not pseudo-publicly challenge the assertion of another cabinet member. I can also agree that the Government needs to be kept under some kind of over sight (thus, transparency). There must be some happy middle ground between classifying everything, and publishing everything. Unfortunately, Assuange took it upon himself to take the decision(s) out of the hands of our elected officials and made his (possibly less informed) decision trump theirs. I don’t want Assuange dead. I would not be surprised if we can’t even prosecute the guy at all. So while I don’t exactly fit the pattern in the OP’s thesis, I don’t see a whole lot of hyposcrisy in critics of Assuange who want him dead. Those folks just assume Assuange put some American lives in jeapardy. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/24 "2010-12-08T20:43:34Z")
My apologies for mispelling Assange multiple times. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/25 "2010-12-08T21:24:05Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Unfortunately, Assuange took it upon himself to take the decision(s) out of the hands of our elected officials and made his (possibly less informed) decision trump theirs. He took that decision out of the hands of our elected officials by proving they cannot be trusted to make the decision. There is no reason to honour their self-serving demands for a lack of oversight once they prove that they are willing to betray that trust. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/26 "2010-12-08T21:35:10Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > He took that decision out of the hands of our elected officials by proving they cannot be trusted to make the decision. There is no reason to honour their self-serving demands for a lack of oversight once they prove that they are willing to betray that trust. Yeah, it’s a real betrayal of the American people when a diplomat informs Washington that Khadaffi has a busty blonde nurse, or that the Italian Prime Minister is too cozy with Putin. Oh, my god, what have those politicians wrought? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Amazing\_Hanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@The\_Amazing\_Hanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Amazing_Hanna)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/27 "2010-12-11T00:44:09Z")
The outrage at Wikileaks is the rage of Caliban, seeing his own face in a glass. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/28 "2010-12-11T01:06:35Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > What bothers me about Wikileaks is that it shines a harsh light on our (America’s) diplomatic corps, but one in which I don’t think any other country’s envoys would look any better. Isn’t it an essential part of the job that you have to know something about the personalities of your counterparts from other countries? To negotiate effectively, isn’t it extremely helpful to know details such as “this one’s quick to fly off the handle”, “don’t mention narcotics with that one”, “the envoys from that country are known to gradually lower their counterparts’ chairs during negotiations”? I would bet my life that diplomats everywhere do this sort of thing, so why should ours be singled out? These cables are proof our foreign state employees are doing their jobs. This is exactly what they’re supposed to do, unfortunately it’s not what we want in public. So you’re trying to hook up with this chick and it’s going really well. Suddenly she gets a text message listing all the smack talk your brother’s been saying about her. It’s not untrue but thats irrelevant. That’s what we’re dealing with. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/29 "2010-12-12T01:45:18Z")
There’s no absolute morality here. If it were Iran’s secrets being exposed, they’d cheer. If it were Canada’s, they wouldn’t care. It’s entirely, “How dare he give me what I have coming!?” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/30 "2010-12-12T03:44:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, what distinguishes your position from the first group? What Gonzomax said, and also, Assange never swore loyalty to the US of A. He owes us nothing in that regard. The same cannot be said of Bush, Cheney and Libby. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/31 "2010-12-12T15:28:29Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I also think the United States government has a right to keep aspects of its foreign relations secret, and to the extent that someone breaks duly constituted laws that violate that principle, they should be locked up for long periods of time. I think Assange is a total bastard and to the extent that he has broken those laws, he should serve every minute of whatever prison sentence that he may have earned. I think non-American citizens have a right—no, a duty—to find out by any means if a foreign government is acting against their interests. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/32 "2010-12-12T16:11:48Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > I think non-American citizens have a right—no, a duty—to find out by any means if a foreign government is acting against their interests. Fine. Doesn’t mean that they get to do so scot-free. If you want to mess with a boxer, better learn how to take a punch. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/33 "2010-12-12T16:40:07Z")
lol. Perhaps America can send in its famed special forces to assassinate him? The same ones who massacred the pupils at a boys boarding school in Afghanistan thinking it was a terrorist cell (Wikileak’d, by the way). Either that, or you can use your spies that you’ve seemingly planted in every friendly nation’s government to persuade the UK or Sweden to hand him over? Americans can carry on whining like bitches all they want. The fact of the matter is, if Assange gets extradited to Sweden, he’s essentially safe. Swedish extradition law is a lot more stringent (especially in regards to extraditions to the US) than its British counterpart. Further, you’re still assuming that Assange has done something illegal in the US. What will you charge him under? Kindly name the law that _Assange_, not Bradley Manning, has broken. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/34 "2010-12-12T17:26:33Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Perhaps America can send in its famed special forces to assassinate him? … Kindly name the law that _Assange_, not Bradley Manning, has broken. Perhaps you should go back to re-read my posts that you have already quoted. Did I say he should be killed? No. Did I say that “to the extent that [Assange] has broken” valid US laws, he should serve whatever time he merits? Yes. If you want to have an argument with Sarah Palin on assassinating Assange, I’m sure you can find her Facebook page. If you want to debate me on this subject, please pay attention to what I have actually said and respond to those points. ---
**Author:** ![in\_hiding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c5a1d2/32.png) [@in\_hiding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/in_hiding)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/35 "2010-12-12T18:42:56Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > For example, there was some data leaked by wikileaks pointing to the U.S pressuring Germany NOT to do anything about some incompetent CIA operatives that kidnapped a German national. An innocent German national. I am raging really hard on that one. But even our own media doesn’t care if we allow US agents to abduct and torture our citizens. The cables on most of our politicians are spot on - a bunch of incompetent cowards. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/36 "2010-12-13T01:47:40Z")
…those who like Wikileaks will have to shut up when someone leaks their own personal infomation (bank accounts, passwords, the stuff you buy). Then tell me. We all love it when it’s someone else and it’s easy to justify it, but when your mom’s medical records go public or your kid’s report cards…that’s always “different”. ---
**Author:** ![Fell\_through\_the\_Ice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9adbd/32.png) [@Fell\_through\_the\_Ice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fell_through_the_Ice)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/37 "2010-12-13T02:31:45Z")
[QUOTE=Sablicious;13212071 the US govt can even take this kind of idiotically obvious **tact** and keep a straight face,[/QUOTE] Nitpick: It’s “tack”, not tact. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/38 "2010-12-13T07:09:46Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > …those who like Wikileaks will have to shut up when someone leaks their own personal infomation (bank accounts, passwords, the stuff you buy). Then tell me. > We all love it when it’s someone else and it’s easy to justify it, but when your mom’s medical records go public or your kid’s report cards…that’s always “different”. Assange has specifically stated that that kind of information is regarded by him as legitimate secrets, not to be leaked. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/39 "2010-12-13T08:15:25Z")
Evil people are not hypocrites every time they call for nasty to be done to their opponents when they have not called for nastiness for someone from their tribe who has done the same thing. That’s just tribalism. These people do not think. When a thinking person, such as Bill Bennett espouses morality and virtue his whole life and then gets caught pissing away millions at casinos, that is hypocrisy because he pretended to be a thoughtful, moral and virtuous person, when in reality he is a sick loser playing slot machines in his underwear in his hotel room so that he cannot be seen for the sick loser he is. The country has a large population of people who pretend to be something they are not for the purpose of fleecing the masses. They may be human, but they are hypocrites and disgusting Elmer Gantry types. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842/40 "2010-12-13T13:00:51Z")
> [@in\_hiding](#): > > I am raging really hard on that one. But even our own media doesn’t care if we allow US agents to abduct and torture our citizens. The cables on most of our politicians are spot on - a bunch of incompetent cowards. Hell, yes. I don’t understand the apathy of the media. But I _hope_ for some longterm consequences: we are already relieved of the post-war political generation that could either see nothing wrong with American influence or furthered it shamelessly. And though the public hasn’t reacted much to the revelations, the “incompetent cowards”-label might stick and help to further a more critical and firmer attitude. I think, this new kind of journalism is a much needed and long overdue adaptation to the multilateral world that we live in. We, the people, have become very transparent to political and economical powers. It’s time that we get to see through some walls in return. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-moral-standards-of-wikileaks-critics/562842.md?page=3)