# The morality of draft avoidance/dodging during Vietnam **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2020, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194 "2020-12-04T12:13:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/121 "2020-12-12T05:49:55Z")
I am sorry, could you please send me a private message telling me how I ought to make my point? Without your guidance, I might say what I want to say as I wish to say it. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/122 "2020-12-12T05:50:24Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > You ought not to put someone in danger to save yourself. Then you shouldn’t ever have a war; because it would never be permissible to put people in danger by attacking them in a war in order to save yourself, or your country. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/123 "2020-12-12T05:52:52Z")
I see. We live in this world and must make our moral choices in its reality. In this world there is evil that can only be stopped by force. War is the last argument against tyrants. It is our last appeal for justice. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/124 "2020-12-12T05:54:16Z")
Hey, you do you. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/125 "2020-12-12T05:55:59Z")
I am very sorry. I do not understand what you are trying to say. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/126 "2020-12-12T05:56:11Z")
Sometimes true; not always. But whether true of a particular war or not, it puts people in danger. So if your flat out rule is ‘you mustn’t endanger anybody else’, then you can’t have a war. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/127 "2020-12-12T05:57:56Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > ‘you mustn’t endanger anybody else’ I thought I said one ought not to endanger another to save oneself. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/128 "2020-12-12T06:04:04Z")
But you think endangering a whole lot of other people, most of them innocent of anything other than possibly having themselves been drafted, and some of them children, in order to (arguably) save a different group of people is fine? (I mean, there are some cases – certainly not including all wars – in which I think it is too. But I don’t kid myself that that isn’t what I’d be arguing for; nor do I deny the possibility that others might legitimately disagree with me.) And I’m going to bed now. I’m not sure this conversation has a chance of going anywhere useful, anyway; though I might come back to it eventually, if it’s still going. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/129 "2020-12-12T06:05:13Z")
Yes, I believe in the use of force to defeat evil. Enjoy your rest. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/130 "2020-12-12T06:10:55Z")
You also believe in forcing people to agree something is evil and that they’re required to fight it. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/131 "2020-12-12T06:12:13Z")
I am sorry you have descended to putting words in my mouth. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/132 "2020-12-12T06:14:36Z")
I made such an effort to keep quote marks out and everything. What part of my post contradicts what you actually think? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/133 "2020-12-12T06:16:33Z")
Honestly, I barely understand what you are trying to say. You stated I believe in something I do not believe in. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/134 "2020-12-12T06:24:38Z")
Ok. Guess there’s language/cultural problems as I just notice you’re Saudi Arabian. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/135 "2020-12-12T06:26:36Z")
I am an American. I simply live in Saudi Arabia. When you say something like this; > [@FigNorton](#): > > You also believe in forcing people to agree something is evil and that they’re required to fight it. you are resorting to putting words into my mouth. That is rude at least. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/136 "2020-12-12T06:29:15Z")
Drafting people into the army to go fight evil is exactly the same as forcing people to agree something is evil and that they’re required to fight it. I don’t get what you are confused about. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/137 "2020-12-12T06:33:53Z")
How can two things that are different be “exactly the same?” Obviously, different things are different. Further, you are straying from the point. The rich and well-connected did not serve in Vietnam, leaving their place to the poor and poorly-connected. Putting someone else in danger to save yourself is morally wrong. Perhaps you are moving from the purpose of this discussion because you realize I am right. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/138 "2020-12-12T06:36:24Z")
Answer: because they’re not different. But I think it’s time for others to talk. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/139 "2020-12-12T06:37:23Z")
That might be best. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194/140 "2020-12-12T13:32:53Z")
**Modnote** : **Paul\_in\_Saudi** & **FigNorton** don’t make this personal. Debate the posts, not the posters. > [@FigNorton](#): > > Hey, you do you. > [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > I am sorry, could you please send me a private message telling me how I ought to make my point? Without your guidance, I might say what I want to say as I wish to say it. > [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > I am sorry you have descended to putting words in my mouth. > [@FigNorton](#): > > You also believe in forcing people to agree something is evil and that they’re required to fight it. **Also, let’s stay on topic.** > [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > Yep. Perfectly correct. Did you notice that in The Pit is a thread discussing what we should call people who support President Trump? Trumpnik. Trumper, Trumpsuckers, trumpistas, Trumpettes, MAGAnuts, trump idiots all have their supporters. > > But of course that is somehow different I suppose. I can’t imagine why. But I am sure it is different. _This is just a guidance, not a warning. Nothing on your permanent record._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morality-of-draft-avoidance-dodging-during-vietnam/927194.md?page=8)