# The more efficient way to build muscle: Reps or weight?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [April 17, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414 "2010-04-17T00:32:35Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@statsman1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statsman1982)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/1 "2010-04-17T00:32:35Z")
I think there might be a factual answer here, so that’s why I put it in GQ.
If I’m looking to build muscle tone (I guess that’s the right term), is it more efficient to do several reps on a resistance that is quite a bit less than the maximum that I can lift, or is it better to try to lift as much as I can for only a few reps?
Let’s make this concrete. Assume I’m using a legpress. Right now, I can do about 15 reps on 160 lbs of weight before my legs say “rest.” I can do about 5 reps if I bump it up to 170. Am I better doing 5 reps at 170, or 10 reps at 160?
I am male, 27, and otherwise healthy, if that matters.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/2 "2010-04-17T02:57:38Z")
The standard answer is that high weight low rep builds muscle mass and strength and that lower weight higher rep builds definition and endurance. The usual middle ground is to lift the weight you can do between 8-15 reps with.
The are many non-standard answers however: pyramids, reverse pyamids, periodization, etc.
FWIW [The American College of Sports Medicine](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11828249)’s position statement:
> [@](#):
>
> In order to stimulate further adaptation toward a specific training goal(s), progression in the type of resistance training protocol used is necessary. The optimal characteristics of strength-specific programs include the use of both concentric and eccentric muscle actions and the performance of both single- and multiple-joint exercises. It is also recommended that the strength program sequence exercises to optimize the quality of the exercise intensity (large before small muscle group exercises, multiple-joint exercises before single-joint exercises, and higher intensity before lower intensity exercises). For initial resistances, it is recommended that loads corresponding to 8-12 repetition maximum (RM) be used in novice training. For intermediate to advanced training, it is recommended that individuals use a wider loading range, from 1-12 RM in a periodized fashion, with eventual emphasis on heavy loading (1-6 RM) using at least 3-min rest periods between sets performed at a moderate contraction velocity (1-2 s concentric, 1-2 s eccentric). When training at a specific RM load, it is recommended that 2-10% increase in load be applied when the individual can perform the current workload for one to two repetitions over the desired number. The recommendation for training frequency is 2-3 d x wk(-1) for novice and intermediate training and 4-5 d x wk(-1) for advanced training. Similar program designs are recommended for hypertrophy training with respect to exercise selection and frequency. For loading, it is recommended that loads corresponding to 1-12 RM be used in periodized fashion, with emphasis on the 6-12 RM zone using 1- to 2-min rest periods between sets at a moderate velocity. Higher volume, multiple-set programs are recommended for maximizing hypertrophy. Progression in power training entails two general loading strategies: 1) strength training, and 2) use of light loads (30-60% of 1 RM) performed at a fast contraction velocity with 2-3 min of rest between sets for multiple sets per exercise. It is also recommended that emphasis be placed on multiple-joint exercises, especially those involving the total body. For local muscular endurance training, it is recommended that light to moderate loads (40-60% of 1 RM) be performed for high repetitions (\> 15) using short rest periods (\< 90 s). In the interpretation of this position stand, as with prior ones, the recommendations should be viewed in context of the individual’s target goals, physical capacity, and training status.
So start out at the 10 reps with moderate weight.
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### Author:  [@statsman1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statsman1982)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/3 "2010-04-17T04:45:15Z")
Wow! That’s a lot of detail. Thanks!
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### Author:  [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/4 "2010-04-17T09:36:24Z")
I’d say that, from a practical point of view, your best bet is to do both heavy, low-rep work and the high-rep stuff. This to keep your body guessing and adapting, and to ward off boredom. In other words, the periodization discussed above, hobbyist - style.
For most of this year I followed a low-rep program. Can’t tell how refreshing it felt to switch to a high-rep one a month ago. At the end of and after a training session, I’m equally spent and sore this way. Clarence Bass has a couple of interesting article on reps and results on his webpage:
[http://cbass.com/Carpinelli.htm](http://cbass.com/Carpinelli.htm)
[http://cbass.com/LiftingWithEffort.htm](http://cbass.com/LiftingWithEffort.htm)
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### Author:  [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/5 "2010-04-17T09:48:15Z")
ETA:
“Advanced beginners” often fret about how to train just right for optimal results. But it seems most important is simply to train consistently, creatively and hard while eating and sleeping well between training sessions.
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### Author:  [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Philosopher)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/6 "2010-04-17T16:43:17Z")
Personally I find the most effective for building strength and muscle is to train with low reps, high weight and relatively long rest periods. I tend to do 3-6 reps with as heavy a weight as possible, with 2-3 minutes rest between each set, for 4 sets. So on your leg press I’d personally do 5 on 170. Partly it’s also because I find high reps get really boring after a while…
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/7 "2010-04-17T19:34:44Z")
Just an echo of what’s been said: all the theory aside what matters is that you keep excercising with regularity - if it’s boring you won’t do it - unless you like boring (I actually enjoy a boring slow long run, it let’s my mind drift.)
For me that means mixing up weights and aerobic and usually doing weights as part of a modified home circuit training: a bit on the home elliptical (manual powered) or ancient treadmill followed by a short mixed set of some compound moves (things like T push-up, dips, military press, bench presses with dumbells, dead lifts, curl to press on single leg, single leg rows, lat pull downs …) then back on the machine and then another set and maybe once more through the cycle depending on how much time I have. And generally 10-15 reps but sometimes mixing it up just for the variety. And changing which compound lifts I do just for the fun of it too.
But then I’m a log time married middle aged guy, not trying to build vanity muscles or win any events, just trying to keep some modicum of fitness in the time I’ve got to give it.
Each person has to find how they most enjoy meeting their own goals.
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### Author:  [@statsman1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statsman1982)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/8 "2010-04-17T19:48:33Z")
Part of my problem is that, currently, one trip through the circuit at my rec center on campus (about 15 machines) 3-4 days a week exhausts me. My legs and arms feel like rubber afterward, but they don’t get sore. I have to rest a bit before I go 35 minutes on the elliptical.
My usual routine is one trip through the circuit and 35 minutes on the elliptical, 3-4 days per week. When I don’t go to the gym, I do several sets of push-ups and crunches through the day. I do those until my arms and abdomen are sore.
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### Author:  [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/9 "2010-04-17T19:58:34Z")
As others have said, the common wisdom is that high-weight, low-rep workouts build strength and muscle mass, while low-weight, high-rep workouts give endurance, toning, and definition. As also noted above, unless you’re doing this for many hours a week, there’s not a lot of difference; it’s more important to exercise consistently.
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### Author:  [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/10 "2010-04-17T20:15:05Z")
> [@DSeid](#):
>
> Just an echo of what’s been said: all the theory aside what matters is that you keep excercising with regularity.
Yep. For 99% of non-pro weight lifters, the most important thing is simply to get to the gym on a regular basis.
I think it’s also good, as others have suggested, to change your workout strategy once in a while. I realized, a little while ago, that i had fallen into a routine of doing 3 sets of 8-10 reps per set, for each exercise. I consciously changed my routine to a higher weight/fewer reps/more sets workout; i shifted to 5 sets of 4-6 reps with heavier weight. Over the next three or four weeks, i saw a noticeable increase in my strength.
Now, like many people in modern society, in my everyday life about the heaviest thing i lift is a bag full of books or a saucepan full of pasta. I don’t exactly need to be strong for my day to day activities. Also, while i can harp on about how good it feels to be healthy (and it does), i also like the idea that, with summer on the way, i won’t be embarrassed about how i look on the beach. So pretty soon i’m going to switch my workout back to higher reps and lighter weight, and i’m also going to focus a bit more attention on my diet and my cardio to see if i can shed a bit more weight around my waist.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/11 "2010-04-17T20:33:38Z")
One thing to keep in mind, and I know this will be hard for a 27-year-old male, is that you’re much more likely to injure yourself “going big”. And when you’re injured, you can’t train much, if at all.
Unless you’re trying to compete in body building contests, stick mostly to low weights/high reps. Personally, I try not to do anything I can’t do 10 reps of.
Full disclosure: I did plenty of stupid high weight lifting in my younger years. And had my share of injuries (especially shoulder).
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### Author:  [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/12 "2010-04-17T21:36:55Z")
A long time ago I read something on weight lifting that I follow to this date, if you are not in body building but just to increase tone and strength. Do exercises of the upper body with a weight that you can do 8 reps. Increase the weight incrementally as your muscle group gets stronger; i.e., when you can do 12 reps consistently. Remember that the eccentric portion (the return to the starting position) is just as important, if not more, than the concentric and should not be rushed. As to the core muscles and lower parts of the body, start out with a weight you can do 15 reps. When you are able to do 20 reps consistently, then increase the weight.
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### Author:  [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Philosopher)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/13 "2010-04-17T23:11:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> One thing to keep in mind, and I know this will be hard for a 27-year-old male, is that you’re much more likely to injure yourself “going big”. And when you’re injured, you can’t train much, if at all.
>
> Unless you’re trying to compete in body building contests, stick mostly to low weights/high reps. Personally, I try not to do anything I can’t do 10 reps of.
>
> Full disclosure: I did plenty of stupid high weight lifting in my younger years. And had my share of injuries (especially shoulder).
I have to say I completely disagree. If you warm up thoroughly before each exercise and get your technique right, there’s no reason why you should be injuring yourself, no matter how heavy a weight you’re trying to do. Even if you go for a weight that’s far too heavy, you shouldn’t get injured unless your technique slips during the lift. You just won’t be able to lift the weight!
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### Author:  [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/14 "2010-04-17T23:21:05Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](#):
>
> I have to say I completely disagree. If you warm up thoroughly before each exercise and get your technique right, there’s no reason why you should be injuring yourself, no matter how heavy a weight you’re trying to do. Even if you go for a weight that’s far too heavy, you shouldn’t get injured unless your technique slips during the lift. You just won’t be able to lift the weight!
That’s true, but the problem is that a lot of guys who try to lift very heavy weight (especially when they’re not very experienced) are also guys who have truly terrible technique.
Some of the form i see in my gym is just diabolical: incredibly arched spines, awful jerking motions, letting the weights down far too quickly, bouncing, short range of motion, and a whole bunch of other bad stuff.
Also, the shoulder is something you have to be careful of, even with decent technique. Sometimes all it takes is a slightly wrong movement to hurt your rotator cuff, or to twinge your shoulder muscles in some way or another. I’ve always been very careful about technique, and i’m happy to sacrifice weight for good technique, but i still managed to hurt my shoulder a couple of years ago doing behind-the-neck barbell press. If i do them now, i use a Smith machine to make sure i don’t over-extend my shoulder.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/15 "2010-04-17T23:57:14Z")
I love free weights and hate the machines. I would also _never_ go for high weight/low rep with free weights, even with a trainer spotting me and coaching on technique. Exactly right that an error in technique, even a small one, can be harmful with weights near your limit. I work out in my basement and believe that free weights with compound moves give me my biggest bang for my time invested buck (wait for a machine? bleh!), but those gym center machines do have that advantage: it is harder to do it wrong and to hurt yourself so you can do some higher weight sets safely.
**statsman** if you are feeling rubbery you are working out just fine. 15 machines tends to repeat some muscle groups as well as doing multiple sets (My “set” is maybe just 6 - 8 different lifts, depending on the day.) “No pain no gain” is crap. Your work out approach sounds like a very good plan.
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### Author:  [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Philosopher)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/16 "2010-04-18T00:46:24Z")
> [@mhendo](#):
>
> That’s true, but the problem is that a lot of guys who try to lift very heavy weight (especially when they’re not very experienced) are also guys who have truly terrible technique.
>
> Some of the form i see in my gym is just diabolical: incredibly arched spines, awful jerking motions, letting the weights down far too quickly, bouncing, short range of motion, and a whole bunch of other bad stuff.
>
> Also, the shoulder is something you have to be careful of, even with decent technique. Sometimes all it takes is a slightly wrong movement to hurt your rotator cuff, or to twinge your shoulder muscles in some way or another. I’ve always been very careful about technique, and i’m happy to sacrifice weight for good technique, but i still managed to hurt my shoulder a couple of years ago doing behind-the-neck barbell press. If i do them now, i use a Smith machine to make sure i don’t over-extend my shoulder.
I agree, but that’s why I think people should be advising beginners to use good technique rather than advising them to not lift anything heavier than a “10 rep” weight. I’ve never done behind-the-neck barbell presses: they’ve always seemed to me like over-extension of the shoulder is an inherent part of the exercise? I wince when I see people doing it in the gym.
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### Author:  [@Sri\_Theo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sri_Theo)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2010, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/17 "2010-04-18T11:05:52Z")
Well I guess I’m in the minority here - its all about the higher weight, you should be trying to increase the weight you lift at every opportunity in order to increase muscle mass.
If your goal is to be ‘toned’ that breaks down into two things 1) Muscle Mass 2) Low fat content, these are a combination of diet and exercise. If your diet’s not right you’ll never gain the physique you’re looking for.
You create muscle through breaking down the fibres through exertion, this happens far faster through heavy weights then light ones - which tend to build up lactic acid or simply tire you out before they have great effect.
I do agree with everyone that simply going regularly is the most important thing but a good routine and a bad one can make all the difference in how motivated you are - maybe you should post your workout here?
And you shouldn’t be doing more than a warm-up cardio on a day you’re weight training anyway.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2010, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/18 "2010-04-18T14:17:33Z")
For any one who is interested, [here](http://weighttraining.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=weighttraining&cdn=health&tm=762&f=21&su=p284.9.336.ip_p674.7.336.ip_&tt=2&bt=1&bts=0&st=23&zu=http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Fulltext/2009/03000/Progression_Models_in_Resistance_Training_for.26.aspx) is a newer edition of the American College of Sports Medicine position statement on Resistance Training, this time the whole article, not the abstract. They have updated slightly.
Our personal anecdotes and repeating what we each believe it is “all about” is all well and good, but they actually do review and grade the evidence.
Again, it is not really the same thing for every person. Different goals require different approaches to optimize results.
Some highlights …
**Sri Theo** ’s approach that it makes sense to always be increasing to maximal lifts is just wrong according to them. Variety _is_ key.
> [@](#):
>
> Variation, or periodization, entails the systematic process of altering one or more program variable(s) over time to allow for the training stimulus to remain challenging and effective. Because the human body adapts quickly to an RT program, at least some changes are needed in order for continual progression to occur. It has been shown that systematic variation of volume and intensity is most effective for long-term progression (254). … The undulating (nonlinear) model of periodization enables variation in intensity and volume within a cycle by rotating different protocols to train various components of neuromuscular performance (e.g., strength, power, LME). For example, in loading schemes for core exercises (those exercises most specific to target goals), the use of heavy, moderate, and light resistances may be systematically or randomly rotated over a training sequence, for example, 3-5 repetition maximum (RM) loads, 8-10 RM loads, and 12-15 RM loads may used in the rotation. This model has compared favorably with linear periodized and nonperiodized multiple-set models (14) and has been shown to produce superior strength increases over 12 wk of RT compared with the classical model (226).
As far as how much load goes (the original op), well that depends on who you are. (But still don’t forget to mix it up)
> [@](#):
>
> Meta-analytical data have shown that 60% of 1 RM produced the largest effect sizes for strength increases in novice individuals whereas 80% of 1 RM produced the largest effect sizes for strength increases in trained individuals (225) and 85% of 1 RM was most effective in athletes (206). For novice individuals, it has been suggested that moderate loading (50-60% of 1 RM or less) be used initially as learning proper form, and technique is paramount. These dose-response data refer to average training dosages, that is, mean loads used for all exercises. Further, using a variety of loads appears to be most effective for long-term progression in muscular strength (157). … Evidence category A. It is recommended that novice to intermediate individuals train with loads corresponding to 60-70% of 1 RM for 8-12 repetitions and advanced individuals cycle training loads of 80-100% of 1 RM to maximize muscular strength (9,33,96,206,225,227,255,268).
As far as the mechanism of hypertrophy goes, and the common belief that trauma (breaking down muscle fibers) is an essential factor of training, there is this:
> [@](#):
>
> The process of hypertrophy involves a proportionate increase in the net accretion of the contractile proteins actin and myosin as well as other structural proteins. Mechanical loading leads to a series of intracellular events that ultimately regulates gene expression and protein synthesis. RT may alter the activity of nearly 70 genes (232), up-regulate factors involved with myogenesis (e.g., myogenin, MyoD), and down-regulate inhibitory growth factors (e.g., myostatin) (148,233). Protein synthesis in human skeletal muscle increases after only one bout of vigorous RT (210) and peaks approximately 24 h postexercise. This anabolic environment remains elevated from 2 to 3 h postexercise up through 36-48 h postexercise (83,166). Other factors such as fiber type (176), muscle action (84), metabolite formation (242), amino acid intake (80), and endocrine responses (testosterone, growth hormone [GH], cortisol, insulin, and insulin-like growth factor I) contribute to the magnitude of hypertrophy (158). Optimal hypertrophy may comprise maximizing the combination of mechanical (use of heavy weights, ECC actions, and low to moderate volume) and metabolic (accumulation of metabolic waste products) stimuli.
Nothing about breaking down fibers being required in there. OTOH, that lactic acid (and other waste products) seem to be somewhat essential to maximizing results.
And there is no reason to believe that you “shouldn’t be doing more than a warm-up cardio on a day you’re weight training” - many _will_ alternate days, but there is no reason to have to.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/19 "2010-04-18T16:57:50Z")
Sorry for the double post but something I _think_ makes sense (but have no study to back me up on) is a variation of the pyramid set. Start with a weight that you can only do 4 or 5 reps with, then with no pause drop a level and do another 4 or so (until you can’t do more) and then some weight dropped - that way you are maximizing the point that you are lifting at the edge of fatigue through a whole weight range. Easier with machines than free weights though.
That and mixing up the exact mix of exercises that your circuit consists of, even as you target the same groups overall.
**statsman** what do want to accomplish with your training? Bulking up? More strength? Better endurance? Overall fitness with a lean sinewy look as your ideal? Support some particular physical activity or sport? General health? Seriously the “ideal” approach may be different depending on the goal.
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### Author:  [@Sri\_Theo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sri_Theo)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-more-efficient-way-to-build-muscle-reps-or-weight/536414/20 "2010-04-18T19:53:23Z")
Huh, the more you know. Counteracts most of what I’ve learnt but I guess it says what it says.
Considering I know a lot of people that have got really good results doing a basic 5 x 5 (pretty much [this](http://newbie-fitness.blogspot.com/) it shows how much simply turning up gets you - I can now squat more than 1.5 times my bodyweight after less than a year, so its still possible to get good results in a different manner.
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