# The morons are on the march, part 42,527 (Frisco, TX edition) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2006, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746 "2006-09-30T16:02:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/1 "2006-09-30T16:02:16Z")
So, a teacher with 28 years’ experience is possibly going to lose her job because her students saw nude figures on a trip to an art museum. > [@](#): > > But Ms. McGee, 51, a popular art teacher with 28 years in the classroom, is out of a job after leading her fifth-grade classes last April through the Dallas Museum of Art. One of her students saw nude art in the museum, and after the child’s parent complained, the teacher was suspended. > > Although the tour had been approved by the principal, and the 89 students were accompanied by 4 other teachers, at least 12 parents and a museum docent, Ms. McGee said, she was called to the principal the next day and “bashed.” > > She later received a memorandum in which the principal, Nancy Lawson, wrote: “During a study trip that you planned for fifth graders, students were exposed to nude statues and other nude art representations.” It cited additional complaints, which Ms. McGee has challenged. The principal and the school board are now, of course, claiming that her suspension and the decision not to renew her contract arise from longer-term performance issues, and that the concern they had with the museum trip was not the nudity, but the fact that it was poorly planned. > [@](#): > > In citing the students’ exposure to nude art, Ms. Lawson also said “time was not used wisely for learning during the trip,” adding that parents and teachers had complained and that Ms. McGee should have toured the route by herself first. But Ms. McGee said she did exactly that. > > In the latest of several statements, the district contended that the trip had been poorly planned. But Mr. Gibbs, the district’s lawyer, acknowledged that Ms. Lawson had approved it. > > \ > > Ms. McGee and her lawyer, Rogge Dunn, who are exploring legal action, say that her past job evaluations had been consistently superior until the museum trip and only turned negative afterward. They have copies of evaluations that bear out the assertion. I only hope that the people in the community fight for her. It looks like some of them are backing her up, but if you’re going to defeat recneckery in Texas, a forceful campaign is necessary. Here’s an [editorial](http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/4225598.html) on the issue from the Houston _Chronicle_. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/2 "2006-09-30T16:03:57Z")
Sorry, here’s the [link](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/30/education/30teacher.html) for the first story i quoted in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/3 "2006-09-30T16:19:39Z")
OMG, my child saw a nude statue. He should have been playing Grand Theft Auto. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/4 "2006-09-30T16:22:36Z")
Did she know about preponderance of nude art prior to the trip? If so, it was quite foolish for her to not think that trouble could arise, especially since her students are in elementary school. I know that sexual morality and modesty is often frowned upon on the Dope, but alot of people adhere to it, especially when concerning elementary aged children. It seems that Frisco TX has some of those people. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/5 "2006-09-30T16:25:37Z")
[QUOTE=Unregistered Bull] Did she know about preponderance of nude art prior to the trip? If so, it was quite foolish for her to not think that trouble could arise, especially since her students are in elementary school. I know that sexual morality and modesty is often frowned upon on the Dope, but alot of people adhere to it, especially when concerning elementary aged children. It seems that Frisco TX has some of those people. [/QUOTE] It would have been foolish if the principal did not approve the trip, maybe. It’s the principal’s job to intercept and anticipate these complaints, espeically when a teacher has submitted an activity to the principal for review. If the principal did not investigate the presence of nude statuary in an art museum, but then suspended a teacher for going on an approved trip to said art museum, the principal is an idiot. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/6 "2006-09-30T16:30:29Z")
Typical fucking small minded Texas reactionary behavior. That entire fucking state needs to be hosed with a flame thrower, following which Kansas should receive the same treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/7 "2006-09-30T16:31:57Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] It would have been foolish if the principal did not approve the trip, maybe. It’s the principal’s job to intercept and anticipate these complaints, espeically when a teacher has submitted an activity to the principal for review. If the principal did not investigate the presence of nude statuary in an art museum, but then suspended a teacher for going on an approved trip to said art museum, the principal is an idiot. Daniel [/QUOTE] Yes the prinicpal shares some responsibility. That goes with leadership. Not as much as the teacher IMO. But if the nude art was a complete suprise to both teacher and prinicipal, then this type of discipline seems far to harsh for what would be a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/8 "2006-09-30T16:32:08Z")
[QUOTE=Unregistered Bull] Did she know about preponderance of nude art prior to the trip? If so, it was quite foolish for her to not think that trouble could arise, especially since her students are in elementary school. I know that sexual morality and modesty is often frowned upon on the Dope, but alot of people adhere to it, especially when concerning elementary aged children. It seems that Frisco TX has some of those people. [/QUOTE] What is sexual about a nude statue that is **not** sexual about a naked 5th grader when he is taking his bath? Or the family dog when he is laying on his back getting a belly scratch? Do the complainants demand their kids look away when bathing or playing with their pets? Were these statues/paintings in a state of arousal? Doing the deed? All peoples gots parts, you know. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/9 "2006-09-30T16:32:36Z")
[QUOTE=Unregistered Bull] Did she know about preponderance of nude art prior to the trip? If so, it was quite foolish for her to not think that trouble could arise, especially since her students are in elementary school. I know that **sexual morality** and modesty is often frowned upon on the Dope, but alot of people adhere to it, especially when concerning elementary aged children. It seems that Frisco TX has some of those people. [/QUOTE] Is there something immoral about the human figure? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/10 "2006-09-30T16:32:49Z")
[QUOTE=LouisB] Typical fucking small minded Texas reactionary behavior. That entire fucking state needs to be hosed with a flame thrower, following which Kansas should receive the same treatment. [/QUOTE] Onward to Florida and victory! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/11 "2006-09-30T16:35:16Z")
[QUOTE=Unregistered Bull] Yes the prinicpal shares some responsibility. That goes with leadership. Not as much as the teacher IMO. But if the nude art was a complete suprise to both teacher and prinicipal, then this type of discipline seems far to harsh for what would be a mistake. [/QUOTE] The principal doesn’t share some responsibility: the principal is where the buck stops. The entire point of getting a field trip approved is to make sure you’ve CYA. If the teacher was secretly planning on taking the students to an exhibit of erotic art and left that out of the approval-seeking process, then sure, the teacher maintains responsibility. But assuming that wasn’t the case, the teaching’s total responsibility is to check in with the principal to make sure that the trip is acceptable. The teacher may not have mentioned that the museum had nude statues. If the principal didn’t assume that an art museum has pieces of art showing naughty bits, the principal is unfit for the job. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/12 "2006-09-30T16:37:22Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] What is sexual about a nude statue that is **not** sexual about a naked 5th grader when he is taking his bath? [/QUOTE] So if they all went for a mass nude bath, you think that should be ok with the parents? ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/13 "2006-09-30T16:39:49Z")
[QUOTE=RaftPeople] Is there something immoral about the human figure? [/QUOTE] When shown to fifth graders against their parents’ wishes, then yes. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/14 "2006-09-30T16:43:42Z")
who the hell **doesn’t** suspect that there would be nude figures/paintings/statues in an art museum? Including the parents. don’t want your kid to see nudes? don’t let 'em go to the art museum. all parents have to sign a permission slip. crap, there’s nude statues all over the fucking place - don’t y’all remember the one the Atty General had draped? ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/15 "2006-09-30T16:46:48Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] If the teacher was secretly planning on taking the students to an exhibit of erotic art [/QUOTE] It wouldn’t even have to art designed to be erotic for this to be contrary to many parent’s moral views when concerning young minor children. I still think that, if this wasn’t an accident, it is primarily the teachers’ fault here. Though I can see disciplinary action taken against the prinicpal as well. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/16 "2006-09-30T16:49:36Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] \ All peoples gots parts, you know. [/QUOTE] Well, that’s where you are wrong. Reactionary prudes only have blurred patches under their clothes. [The Onion speaks on this type of issue.](http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30883) ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/17 "2006-09-30T16:51:24Z")
[QUOTE=wring] who the hell **doesn’t** suspect that there would be nude figures/paintings/statues in an art museum? Including the parents. don’t want your kid to see nudes? don’t let 'em go to the art museum. all parents have to sign a permission slip. crap, there’s nude statues all over the fucking place - don’t y’all remember the one the Atty General had draped? [/QUOTE] There are no nude public statues where I live (in Texas). None of the art exhibits that I’ve seen recently here in Texas and New Mexico have had any nudity. It is not suprising that a safe assumption could be made by parents with similar experiences that nude art would not be seen by young minor children under their teacher’s guardianship when on a field trip. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/18 "2006-09-30T16:53:02Z")
[QUOTE=Unregistered Bull] Did she know about preponderance of nude art prior to the trip? If so, it was quite foolish for her to not think that trouble could arise, especially since her students are in elementary school. I know that sexual morality and modesty is often frowned upon on the Dope, but alot of people adhere to it, especially when concerning elementary aged children. It seems that Frisco TX has some of those people. [/quote] I don’t think “preponderance” means what you think it means. According to the article i linked: > [@](#): > > Retracing her route this week through the museum’s European and contemporary galleries, Ms. McGee passed the marble torso of a Greek youth from a funerary relief, circa 330 B.C.; its label reads, “his nude body has the radiant purity of an athlete in his prime.” She passed sculptor Auguste Rodin’s tormented “Shade;” Aristide Maillol’s “Flora,” with her clingy sheer garment; and Jean Arp’s “Star in a Dream.” According to Webster’s, “preponderance” means: > [@](#): > > 1. a superiority in weight, power, importance, or strength > 2 a : a superiority or excess in number or quantity b : MAJORITY Four pieces in a large art museum hardly constitutes a preponderance. As far as the teacher’s responsibility to know that “trouble could arise,” i direct your attention to the _Chronicle_ editorial that i linked: > [@](#): > > Maybe the concerned parent is an odd, latter-day Victorian. That’s what permission slips are for. It’s hard to imagine a 21st century American unaware of what lies behind the doors of art museums, or that Western art includes a nude or two. Exactly. Any parent who allows their child to go on an art museum tour, and who doesn’t realise that art museums contain nude sculptures and paintings, is an idiot. Do you think that there is a single major art museum in America that doesn’t have a nude figure in its collection? Actually, the _Chronicle_’s editorial got one thing wrong—the parent in question isn’t a “latter day Victorian.” The Victorians, despite their reputation for prudery, generally had no trouble with artwork that represented the human figure, especially if the art in question was of classical or renaissance origin. And if you really think this can be equated with the students having a “mass nude bath,” then you’re an even bigger idiot than you appear, which is quite an achievement. I guess you’re one of the people “on the march” that i referred to in the thread title. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/19 "2006-09-30T16:53:53Z")
[QUOTE=Chefguy] Onward to Florida and victory! [/QUOTE] Oops! Burn the fucking place BEFORE Texas and Kansas—you’re absolutely correct. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746/20 "2006-09-30T16:55:15Z")
[QUOTE=Unregistered Bull] It wouldn’t even have to art designed to be erotic for this to be contrary to many parent’s moral views when concerning young minor children. I still think that, if this wasn’t an accident, it is primarily the teachers’ fault here. Though I can see disciplinary action taken against the prinicpal as well. [/QUOTE] What part of CYA is unclear? Daniel [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-morons-are-on-the-march-part-42-527-frisco-tx-edition/374746.md?page=2)