# The most fucked-up movie ostensibly aimed at children **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 9, 2009, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827 "2009-08-09T11:42:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/21 "2009-08-09T15:28:15Z")
> [@SmashTheState](#): > > And you folks can’t see that’s part of the message? _The Incredibles_ is pure Randian propaganda, start to finish. Syndrome is supposed to represent the evil forces of collectivism, saying on the surface that they wish to empower everyone, but _secretly_ they’re envious of the John Galts of the world and just want to tear them down for their own satisfaction. Syndrome wasn’t born “super,” like the decent, upstanding Incredibles, so he’s envious and hateful. Christ, I don’t see how it could be more obvious. I’m far from the only person who rolls his eyes at the sledgehammer subtlety of the noxious Objectivist subtext. :rolleyes: I bet I’m far from the only person who rolls his eyes at your interpretation of it, too. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/22 "2009-08-09T15:31:07Z")
> [@SmashTheState](#): > > And you folks can’t see that’s part of the message? _The Incredibles_ is pure Randian propaganda, start to finish. Syndrome is supposed to represent the evil forces of collectivism, saying on the surface that they wish to empower everyone, but _secretly_ they’re envious of the John Galts of the world and just want to tear them down for their own satisfaction. Syndrome wasn’t born “super,” like the decent, upstanding Incredibles, so he’s envious and hateful. Christ, I don’t see how it could be more obvious. I’m far from the only person who rolls his eyes at the sledgehammer subtlety of the noxious Objectivist subtext. Sometimes a movie is just a movie. Not everything is a political statement. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/23 "2009-08-09T15:31:37Z")
_Watership Down_ _Bridge to Terabithia_ _Old Yeller_ & _Where the Red Fern Grows_ (tied) _The Secret of NIMH_ I could go on, but I’m getting pissed off… ---
**Author:** ![Miltonyz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Miltonyz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miltonyz)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/24 "2009-08-09T15:49:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Watership Down > > Bridge to Terabithia > > Old Yeller & Where the Red Fern Grows (tied) > > The Secret of NIMH > > I could go on, but I’m getting pissed off… Whats wrong with Old Yeller & Where the Red Fern Grows? Both are stories about young adults maturing and transitioning to adulthood. The deaths of their dogs represent a major step. Killing Old Yeller is what has to be done and the main character choosing to do it himself shows a maturity. The sequel isn’t too bad either but the climax is essentially the same with the boy now having to shoot his new horse. WTRFG was my favorite book as a child and I cried every time I read it. Not a single tear but full on face wet and snot flowing. That being said Dan and Little Ann’s deaths allowed his family to move into the city guilt free. I understand books full of subtext or larger words being over a kids head, but I think we short kids if we think they can only read happy fluff tales. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/25 "2009-08-09T15:49:39Z")
We had a Dr. Seuss record when I was a kid and Bartholomew and the Ooglek was just freaky enough. ---
**Author:** ![bramma23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@bramma23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bramma23)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/26 "2009-08-09T15:50:46Z")
I always thought that Syndrome’s master plan was supposed to be reminiscent of sensitivity training, political correctness, and marginalization that George Carlin and others railed against in their careers. The trend to say that “everyone is a special snowflake” and to not determine winners/losers in children’s sports or to give everyone a trophy for even participating. The Stuart Smalley movement, if you will. Even if you take out all the contradictory elements in his plan and view his motives as altruistic, I still don’t see Syndrome’s plan as a political movement. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/27 "2009-08-09T16:08:57Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > My vote goes to _All Dogs Go To Heaven_ by Don Bluth. Supposedly a fun children’s animated feature about talking animals. In actuality, a surreal and terrifying maelstrom of fear, confusion and brutality, and existential questions of life and death, set in an utterly seedy dockside-slum environment straight out of Samuel Delany’s _Hogg._ Okay, I sincerely do not mean this as a personal attack, but is it your new mission in life to mention Samuel Delany’s _Hogg_ in as many threads as possible? In the past week or so it seems like you’ve been going out of your way to work in references to _Hogg_. I’d recommend toning it down a bit, because it’s not going to do you any good to become known as the guy who’s obsessed with [this book](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogg_(novel)). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/28 "2009-08-09T16:17:13Z")
> [@SmashTheState](#): > > Syndrome wasn’t born “super,” like the decent, upstanding Incredibles, so he’s envious and hateful. Nonsense. Syndrome is a technological genius. He’s every bit as “super” as Mr. Incredible or Edna Mode. But his self-loathing prevents him from seeing it, making him envious and hateful. If there’s a John Galt figure in _The Incredibles_, it’s Syndrome himself – the multimillionaire industrialist and technological genius who accepts no limits on his behavior. And he’s defeated by the Parr family (par = average). The irony is that in the end it’s the “superheros” who serve the collective good and the “normal” villain who fails in his Randian quest for total autonomy. This is driven home by the final scene at the track meet where Dash has learned how to successfully integrate his special abilities into the normative demands of day-to-day society. Would a Randian text \*celebrate \*a hero’s conscious attempts to finish in 2nd place? ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/29 "2009-08-09T16:56:43Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > LOL … Syndrome is anything but a populist. He’s made himself vastly wealthy by selling weapons, while admitting that he keeps the best technology just for himself. He doesn’t even share his zero-point technology with his own henchmen or his girlfriend. His talk of making everyone super is pure bullshit. and remember when he was monaloging he said that his plan was to sell the stuff AFTER he was done playing superhero for profit. ETA; or what Chimera said above…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/30 "2009-08-09T17:13:44Z")
At no point does Mr. Incredible oppose the idea of everyone getting super powers. Syndrome’s idea that the thought of super equality somehow offends Incredible is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/31 "2009-08-09T17:21:53Z")
“Hey kids! Here’s a fun Christmas movie about an adorable little teddy bear-like critter and his friends who get into wacky holiday adventures! [Lookit this li’l guy!](http://elvire.scheibling.free.fr/perso/goweb/trombino/Mogwai.jpg) Inn’t he cute! He’s on sale at Toys R Us and Burger King! Go tell your parents you want to see this movie right now! By the way, Parental Guidance suggested.” “…Okay, have you all paid your tickets? We’re all here in the dark together? Goood. By the way, this movie is really all about [these things](http://www.clubdesmonstres.com/gremlinspib10.jpg) and their murderous, inexplicable rampage. Remember how E.T. was kind of scary-looking but ultimately funny and benign? Well, these things are scary-looking and want to peel your face right off and eat it. Watch them caper and gibber insanely as they slaughter and dismember all who cross their path. Oh, and by the way, Santa Claus is dead. He got stuck in a chimney and no one noticed until he started to rot; thought you’d want to know that too. Merry Christmas! Sleep tight!” Good one, Joe. ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/32 "2009-08-09T17:28:05Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > _Watership Down_ And its sick cousin, The Plague Dogs. In college, the SciFi/Fantasy group I headed did movie nights every Saturday; one week we showed WD and TPD and billed it as “Warm Fuzzy Animals Night.” We had to be escorted out of the building at the end of the evening to keep the folks who’d taken our advertising seriously from killing us. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/33 "2009-08-09T17:48:54Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Also: Beethoven. A heartwarming story about a family who adopts a dog. Except that the dog was intended as a test subject for ballistic research with high-powered rifles, and has an evil and sadistic doctor posing as a “veterinarian” chasing after the family’s dog and trying to hunt it down so he can bring it back to the lab for its ultimate and very violent death. > > I always thought this was way too gruesome a subtext for a kids’ movie. In all honesty, I think you really underestimate kids and their ability to process things that adults see as “frightening” or “gruesome.” I was a sensitive kid and I remember really enjoying All Dogs go to Heaven. Today my brother and I often reference it or look back on it nostalgically. I mean, it’s weird as HELL and so not Disney, but it’s kind of awesome. Beethoven was pretty cheesy and overly cutesy, but it’s not like the whole movie was about the evil vet. There were some creepy scenes, but what’s the point of making a movie where there aren’t some genuinely scary bits? > [@Miltonyz](#): > > Whats wrong with Old Yeller & Where the Red Fern Grows? Both are stories about young adults maturing and transitioning to adulthood. The deaths of their dogs represent a major step. Killing Old Yeller is what has to be done and the main character choosing to do it himself shows a maturity. The sequel isn’t too bad either but the climax is essentially the same with the boy now having to shoot his new horse. > WTRFG was my favorite book as a child and I cried every time I read it. Not a single tear but full on face wet and snot flowing. That being said Dan and Little Ann’s deaths allowed his family to move into the city guilt free. I understand books full of subtext or larger words being over a kids head, but I think we short kids if we think they can only read happy fluff tales. And I agree with this–I started a thread a while ago where I asked if people genuinely disliked books where dogs were hurt or killed…and a surprising number of people said yes, finding them manipulative because the whole point of the book is to kill off a dog. I cried at Red Fern, but I think that’s a strength of a book–that they can create characters that I care about enough to cry over (both at the deaths of the dogs and at the sadness of the boy). They’re sad books, but I think it’s good for kids to experience a little sadness in a controlled way like in a sad book or film. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/34 "2009-08-09T18:00:37Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > :rolleyes: > > I bet I’m far from the only person who rolls his eyes at your interpretation of it, too. You aren’t. And no, the movie is not too heavy for kids. It has some adult themes but that doesn’t make it fucked up. All Dogs Go to Heaven is scarier and weirder than anything that happens in The Incredibles. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/35 "2009-08-09T18:01:03Z")
_Watership Down_ is not aimed at kids. What’s wring with it anyway? That’s my all time favorite novel. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/36 "2009-08-09T18:05:52Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > _Watership Down_ is not aimed at kids. > > What’s wring with it anyway? That’s my all time favorite novel. Mine, too. I know they made an animated film of it, and I guess there are parents who think, “Aww, cute animated bunnies–for kids!” I do feel like there are kids who would like it, just as there are adults. Richard Adams originally told it as bedtime stories to his kids and it’s very accessible and readable. But at the same time, it’s some great writing and storytelling. But I still don’t see it, or Bridge to Terabithia, or any really awesome books would piss someone off. Do people seriously just want nice happy books about bunnies and dogs and people who never die or get any injury beyond a paper cut? Even as a kid, I knew which books were condescending to me and which authors took me seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/37 "2009-08-09T18:11:54Z")
I agree. A kid’s story is not rendered “fucked up” just because it deals with tragedy. What’s fucked up is trying to sand off every edge and corner from a kid’s story to make it bland and safe. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/38 "2009-08-09T18:20:37Z")
I’ve never heard of the interpretation of “The Incredibles” (I always thought it was more of a pro-tort reform message). The Plague Dogs was rated PG-13 so I don’t think it was aimed towards children. Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory’s chicken decapitation scene was quite unfortunate. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/39 "2009-08-09T18:27:42Z")
Something Wicked This Way Comes ’ was a Disney movie that was far scarier than you would think. I was surprise by it. ---
**Author:** ![santosvega](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@santosvega](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/santosvega)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827/40 "2009-08-09T19:29:23Z")
For the record, I’ve just read a few archived reviews of _The Incredibles_ out of curiosity, and nearly all of them mention objectivism or Ayn Rand, so I don’t think **SmashTheState** can necessarily be accused of pulling this stuff out of nowhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-fucked-up-movie-ostensibly-aimed-at-children/505827.md?page=3)