# The most hated man in the Toronto area - you almost feel sorry for him **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 7, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448 "2016-01-07T22:19:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/21 "2016-01-08T12:53:04Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I suppose it takes some doing to oust Tom Ford for the title. > [@D18](#): > > Well, you mean Rob or Doug. Probably Rob. No, Sam has some weird hatred of Tom Ford, a Canadian dry cleaner. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/22 "2016-01-08T13:01:06Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I agree that in early stages, a softer approach may be more useful. By the time one gets to the third offense, I’m all for a lengthy jail term. Some people just won’t learn. I know a guy who recently completed 2 years in prison after yet another DUI, aggravated by his high BA level. _The day of his release_ he came to celebrate at the bar I know him from. It was awkward. He had a couple of beers, then left, complaining about everyone being too stuck-up to buy him a celebratory drink. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/23 "2016-01-08T13:33:12Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Yes. Family of four went out late at night to see the Northern Lights. > > Coming home, they got t-boned. > Mom and Dad died at the scene. > Five year old daughter and two year old son died in hospital. > > Driver of the other car is facing four charges of impaired driving causing death. I think she’s up to 12 charges now. This particular incident is really frustrating, because the accident happened at an absolutely lethal intersection. 31 major accidents between 2010 and 2014 causing 3 deaths and 20 serious injuries, alcohol a factor in very few. We very badly need things modified at the intersection to make it safer, but it seems the authorities are playing up the DUI angle instead of admitting that they need to spend a pile of money doing something about the road. You just can’t have a major street T into a 4-lane highway with nothing more than stop signs and turning lanes, see traffic double or triple over a few years, and expect people not to pay with their lives. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/24 "2016-01-08T14:25:42Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > As I said, it almost makes you feel sorry for the guy. Not in the slightest. Not even an infinitesimal atom of sorry. He chose to drink. He chose to drive. And now he can face the consequences, just like anyone else. Things like that make me want to go all 17th Century on folks like that. IMHO as always. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/25 "2016-01-08T15:06:57Z")
I don’t have a lot of love for kids who are rich because their grandfather was good at handling the already significant family fortune. The same kid annihilates a middle class family at the end of a epic douche-bro trip? I’d feel really sorry for the dogs that I had to temporarily starve before feeding him to them. **KarlGauss’** [Toronto Star link](http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2015/09/28/3-children-1-man-killed-in-vaughan-crash.html) was heartbreaking. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/26 "2016-01-08T15:16:10Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Obviously a tragedy all around. There is however, one bright side to all this. > > This happened in Canada. Can you imagine the media circus if this had happened in the US and of course all the Presidential hopefuls and their handlers and the media cheerleaders all got ahold of this one and started posturing one way or the other? > > I suspect that even Canadians would rather deal with their own version of the circus than have to live next door to the din of our cocaine-and-testosterone-fueled version of the same circus. This could cause a split in the Republican party. Do we build a wall along the Canadian border so people like him can’t get in (and of course we’ll make him pay for it), or since he’s a gazillionaire and a job creator do we invite him in and shelter him from those Canadian hippie communists? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/27 "2016-01-08T15:23:21Z")
Musso must know they have him dead to rights; he’s pleading guilty AND choosing to be tried by the judge alone. To me, that makes me think his lawyers told him that he’s well and truly fucked regardless, and that his best bet is with the judge alone, rather than 12 angry fellow citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/28 "2016-01-08T15:40:31Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Musso must know they have him dead to rights; he’s pleading guilty AND choosing to be tried by the judge alone. > > To me, that makes me think his lawyers told him that he’s well and truly fucked regardless, and that his best bet is with the judge alone, rather than 12 angry fellow citizens. Of course. He’s got the best legal counsel money can buy, and they’re in damage control mode. No point in fighting an unwinnable battle. He’ll probably spend the smallest amount of time legally possible in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/29 "2016-01-08T15:45:16Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Musso must know they have him dead to rights; he’s pleading guilty AND choosing to be tried by the judge alone. > > To me, that makes me think his lawyers told him that he’s well and truly fucked regardless, and that his best bet is with the judge alone, rather than 12 angry fellow citizens. It is his best shot. Contrary to the beliefs of some a “high priced lawyer” can’t “get you off”. All any lawyer can do is take the tactics that will get you your best available outcome. In a case like this, where the facts appear to be crystal-clear, the best tactic, according to Mr. Greenspan, is to have his client plead guilty and express remorse (for a guilty plea, there is no need for a jury trial). Reading the articles, I can’t say I disagree with that analysis. On a side note - I’m not a criminal lawyer (or even a _criminal_ lawyer 😉 ), but I took criminal procedure with Eddie and Brian Greenspan when I was a student at U of T. I liked them. They were clever and funny (particularly Eddie, who has since passed away), and of course, they had tons of awesome ‘war stories’ about their cases - though admittedly, I’ve forgotten them all now. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/30 "2016-01-08T16:13:43Z")
The thread title is misleading – I don’t “almost feel sorry for him”. I don’t feel even the least bit sorry for him. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/31 "2016-01-08T16:23:06Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > On a side note - I’m not a criminal lawyer (or even a _criminal_ lawyer 😉 ), but I took criminal procedure with Eddie and Brian Greenspan when I was a student at U of T. I liked them. They were clever and funny (particularly Eddie, who has since passed away), and of course, they had tons of awesome ‘war stories’ about their cases - though admittedly, I’ve forgotten them all now. That would have been an interesting class! I’ve heard Eddy speak and he was a great talker: insightful, informed, witty. I don’t think I’ve ever seen Brian Greenspan but he certainly has a good reputation. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/32 "2016-01-08T16:24:26Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > In a case like this, where the facts appear to be crystal-clear, the best tactic, according to Mr. Greenspan, is to have his client plead guilty and express remorse (for a guilty plea, there is no need for a jury trial). Reading the articles, I can’t say I disagree with that analysis. Sounds like [the Asoh defense.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_2#The_.22Asoh_defense.22) ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/33 "2016-01-08T16:41:37Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > I think she’s up to 12 charges now. > > This particular incident is really frustrating, because the accident happened at an absolutely lethal intersection. 31 major accidents between 2010 and 2014 causing 3 deaths and 20 serious injuries, alcohol a factor in very few. We very badly need things modified at the intersection to make it safer, but it seems the authorities are playing up the DUI angle instead of admitting that they need to spend a pile of money doing something about the road. You just can’t have a major street T into a 4-lane highway with nothing more than stop signs and turning lanes, see traffic double or triple over a few years, and expect people not to pay with their lives. Oh come on. There is no way you can blame her actions on the intersection. How much traffic do you think there was late enough at night that a family was out star-gazing. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/34 "2016-01-08T16:51:00Z")
I don’t feel sorry for him at all. The fact that he’s made of money just makes it all the more easy for him to take a cab. He came home in a private jet. He couldn’t spend another $25 for a taxi or Uber or whatever? > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I suppose it takes some doing to oust Tom Ford for the title. > [@D18](#): > > Well, you mean Rob or Doug. Probably Rob. He might mean Tom. His '15 Spring collection was just _dire_. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/35 "2016-01-08T16:59:12Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > That would have been an interesting class! I’ve heard Eddy speak and he was a great talker: insightful, informed, witty. I don’t think I’ve ever seen Brian Greenspan but he certainly has a good reputation. It was a great class. Eddie was the flamboyant wit, Brian the more sober, quiet one - but plenty interesting once he got talking. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/36 "2016-01-08T17:08:10Z")
Why should I feel sorry for this guy? His life may be ruined but it was a self-inflicted and avoidable ruin. And he hurt other people worse than he hurt himself. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/37 "2016-01-08T17:21:39Z")
> [@Whiskey\_Dickens](#): > > **KarlGauss’** [Toronto Star link](http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2015/09/28/3-children-1-man-killed-in-vaughan-crash.html) was heartbreaking. Jennifer the mother: > [@](#): > > The doctors placed the two beds beside one another, moved the children close and placed their hands together as their parents lay down beside them. > > “We all sang ‘Somewhere over The Rainbow,’ and my babies’ machines stopped.” ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/38 "2016-01-08T17:23:26Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I’ve heard Eddy speak and he was a great talker: insightful, informed, witty. I don’t think I’ve ever seen Brian Greenspan but he certainly has a good reputation. Ditto concerning Brian. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/39 "2016-01-08T18:24:02Z")
Such a shame we really have to use due process and can’t lock this fuck in a sea container with Ethan Couch and drop them in the ocean…Along with thier parents who enabled this kind of behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448/40 "2016-01-08T18:51:50Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Jennifer the mother: Oh man. I stopped reading before I got to that part. Now I’m debating finding a hiding spot at work or hoping no one notices the tears. I have a little one and wouldn’t be long for the world if I went through Jennifer’s ordeal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-hated-man-in-the-toronto-area-you-almost-feel-sorry-for-him/742448.md?page=3)