# The most important thing you need to know about the voter ID issue . . . **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 29, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813 "2013-07-29T14:42:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/181 "2013-07-31T06:29:30Z")
The Voting Rights Act was not totally wiped out by that unfortunate 5-4 decision. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/182 "2013-07-31T06:41:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. It will serve to strengthen the public’s faith and confidence in the integrity and reliability of the electoral process. It would in actuality lower the integrity and reliability of the electoral process by keeping far more minority and poor voters from voting than would have fraudulently voted. If 10k people are kept from voting, and 5 people are caught fraudulently voting, only a silly person would think that is a sound solution, right Bricker? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/183 "2013-07-31T07:34:52Z")
But with the current “system”, how would you even catch them? If these people just live in a shadowy way with no identification, who is to say who they are? I suspect if nobody had any ID, and the law says as it does now that you must be 21 to drink, you wouldn’t catch too many people violating that either. If it’s just totally on the honor system, how do you verify? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/184 "2013-07-31T09:27:38Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I suspect if nobody had any ID, and the law says as it does now that you must be 21 to drink, you wouldn’t catch too many people violating that either. If it’s just totally on the honor system, how do you verify? If you had to register to drink, and had to confirm your name and address with the bartender at your gov’t designated watering hole, who had you sign your name in a publicly reviewable log book every time you drank, I would suspect that a cunning detective, like Sherlock Holmes, or Inspector Clouseau would be able to figure a way to catch SOMEONE doing it. Maybe not everyone, but if there is actually a problem with underage drinking, you will be able to find a decent number of offenders. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/185 "2013-07-31T10:30:26Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > But with the current “system”, how would you even catch them? If these people just live in a shadowy way with no identification, who is to say who they are? > > I suspect if nobody had any ID, and the law says as it does now that you must be 21 to drink, you wouldn’t catch too many people violating that either. If it’s just totally on the honor system, how do you verify? This is what I was talking about in post 156. Some people seem ignorant of voter registration. Where is it in the US that you can register to vote with no identification? ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/186 "2013-07-31T12:12:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If the goal is to further decrease the number of voters, it’s an excellent idea. The passage of such a law coupled with some timely rumors about what the government will be doing with all those fingerprints, and the voting ranks will be thinned out even more than they are now, which is certainly one of the goals of the Republican Party. You will be losing many more legitimate(but already paranoid) voters than fraudulent voters. IMHO, 10 times as many Republicans are suffering from paranoia than Democrats. The whole reason most Republicans are Republicans has to do with the genetic disposition to be less trusting, less willing to try new things and more concerned about someone taking their property than Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/187 "2013-07-31T13:05:14Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > This is what I was talking about in post 156. Some people seem ignorant of voter registration. > > Where is it in the US that you can register to vote with no identification? Uh, if people need ID to register, then there is no issue. But we have been told repeatedly that large numbers of people, especially young and elderly minorities, have no ID. If they are voting under current law, they are registering without ID. Right? BTW, if the authorities are going to do it ID free, they need to stop having those books open for people to sign. Go to a different precinct right before polls close, look for an unsigned name, and you are set. Oh, or even easier: I work every two years doing GOTV for Democrats, and they have these printouts with voters’ names and addresses and their voting history. Lots of people only vote in presidential cycles, so if you assum their identity in off year elections, it likely won’t get caught. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/188 "2013-07-31T13:20:18Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Uh, if people need ID to register, then there is no issue. Hooray! Ignorance fought! We can call it a day! > [@](#): > > But we have been told repeatedly that large numbers of people, especially young and elderly minorities, have no ID. If they are voting under current law, they are registering without ID. Right? You should really apprise yourself of the situation a bit more fully. People have to have ID to register. Common requirements include a SS# or drivers license number. The issue here has to do with new, additional requirements for a PHOTO ID. This is what many people lack. A significant concern is Republican attempts to change the voting process, often with very short notice. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/189 "2013-07-31T13:24:10Z")
It’s not that I need to apprise myself of anything, it’s that you and I have a different definition of ID. Something without a photo is not an ID in my book. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/190 "2013-07-31T13:34:38Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > It’s not that I need to apprise myself of anything, it’s that you and I have a different definition of ID. Something without a photo is not an ID in my book. You don’t have to have a photo ID to register to vote. You just need an ID. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/191 "2013-07-31T13:39:09Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > It’s not that I need to apprise myself of anything, it’s that you and I have a different definition of ID. Something without a photo is not an ID in my book. Hmm. Well, you and the federal and state governments also have a different definition. Photo ID is a specific type of ID. Does your birth certificate have a photo on it? ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/192 "2013-07-31T13:53:41Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Uh, if people need ID to register, then there is no issue. But we have been told repeatedly that large numbers of people, especially young and elderly minorities, have no ID. If they are voting under current law, they are registering without ID. Right?\ Lots of elderly registered back when they had ID. Now they’ve given up their driver license, maybe moved a couple of times, and don’t have a current picture ID that matches their residence. So they are legitimately registered but cannot show a valid current picture ID at the poll. Young voters often could register with college ID, an affidavit from mom and dad, or a power bill. They ride a bike on campus, and thus have no driver license or other government photo ID to display at the poll but are legitimately registered. Minorities/poor may also have legitimately registered at some point in the past but have moved, live with friends, have no stable address, or for economic reasons have not kept their photo ID current. (It costs time and money to go get a replacement license every time you move, for instance, and if you do so frequently, even within the same neighborhood, you will be unlikely to keep your driver license current. That’s if you had one in the first place, which is unlikely if you ride the bus to work.) These are the people who are legitimately registered – not felons, not illegal aliens, not “poll packers”, just plain folks who at some time jumped the hurdles necessary to become registered – but who now lack “current, government issued, photo ID”. These are the people who are being disenfranchised. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/193 "2013-07-31T13:59:42Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It would in actuality lower the integrity and reliability of the electoral process by keeping far more minority and poor voters from voting than would have fraudulently voted. > > If 10k people are kept from voting, and 5 people are caught fraudulently voting, only a silly person would think that is a sound solution, right Bricker? I disagree. You say “kept from voting,” but in reality no one is being “kept from voting.” The requisite IDs are free. All legitimate voters can get one. So in fact, the formulation is: If zero people are kept from voting, and five people are caught fraudulently voting, only a silly person would resist this sound solution, right, Lobohan? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/194 "2013-07-31T14:07:33Z")
Literacy tests didn’t keep people from voting either. A basic education is free to all US citizens, and all legitimate voters can learn how to read if they really want to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/195 "2013-07-31T14:16:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I disagree. You say “kept from voting,” but in reality no one is being “kept from voting.” The requisite IDs are free. All legitimate voters can get one. So in fact, the formulation is: > > If zero people are kept from voting, and five people are caught fraudulently voting, only a silly person would resist this sound solution, right, Lobohan? Similarly, providing resources to a district in such an amount that the wait to vote lasts up to 10 hours is not disenfranchising any voter. Legitimate voters are still free to vote after waiting 10 hours. Such circumstances do not “keep anyone from voting.” ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/196 "2013-07-31T14:24:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I disagree. You say “kept from voting,” but in reality no one is being “kept from voting.” The requisite IDs are free. All legitimate voters can get one. So in fact, the formulation is: > > If zero people are kept from voting, and five people are caught fraudulently voting, only a silly person would resist this sound solution, right, Lobohan? This issue has nothing but a veneer of respectability. It makes sense as long as you keep the discussion entirely theoretical, and ignore what will actually happen when the laws are enacted. Laws exist to have real effect on people, ignoring that real effect is dishonest. The Republicans who are promoting these laws know damn well what that effect is, since that is the reason they want Voter ID. You know they’re lying when they pontificate about the integrity of the vote, because they don’t say fuck-all about absentee votes, that have 100x the fraud of in person voting. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/197 "2013-07-31T14:28:28Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > **Literacy tests didn’t keep people from voting either**. A basic education is free to all US citizens, and all legitimate voters can learn how to read if they really want to vote. They [sure](http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_vault/2013/06/28/voting_rights_and_the_supreme_court_the_impossible_literacy_test_louisiana.html) as [hell](http://www.crmvet.org/info/lithome.htm) [did](http://www.pbs.org/wnet/jimcrow/voting_literacy.html). ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/198 "2013-07-31T14:37:25Z")
Guess I should have used sarcasm tags. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/199 "2013-07-31T14:37:37Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > They [sure](http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_vault/2013/06/28/voting_rights_and_the_supreme_court_the_impossible_literacy_test_louisiana.html) as [hell](http://www.crmvet.org/info/lithome.htm) [did](http://www.pbs.org/wnet/jimcrow/voting_literacy.html). I think **steronz** was being sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/200 "2013-07-31T15:11:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But without Voter ID, how would we ever know? Hey, want to buy my magic tiger-repellent rock? Of course it works- have you ever seen a tiger 'round these parts? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813.md?page=11)