# The most important thing you need to know about the voter ID issue . . . **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 29, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813 "2013-07-29T14:42:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/241 "2013-07-31T20:30:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No complaints about “neener-neener” can be heard from the person who says [this.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16526138&postcount=201) Shit, he filed a Motion to Fuhgeddaboutit! OK, well, all of you who read what I said are now legally obliged to forget it ever happened. Damn! Outsmarted _again!_ ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/242 "2013-07-31T20:41:12Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > So no, then. Well, at least I’ve learned to verify first before diving into the knothole. > > The voter who chooses not to wait has made an unreasonable decision too. Sez you. But few, including the legislature, would agree with you. > [@](#): > > There are no unfair burdens, as long as the court and/or legislature does not deem them so. Yes, exactly right. We have mechanisms for determining what is, and is not, reasonable. And they are the legislatures, and then the courts. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/243 "2013-07-31T20:52:55Z")
Unless what they do is unjust. Then they surrender any such privilege, they no longer deserve it. And if they use such power to ensure they retain such power, they betray their oaths and are deserving of nothing but our contempt. Tyranny by the elected may be marginally an improvement over tyranny by force, but a reasonable man will not trouble himself over such a puny distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/244 "2013-07-31T20:55:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Unless what they do is unjust. Then they surrender any such privilege, they no longer deserve it. And if they use such power to ensure they retain such power, they betray their oaths and are deserving of nothing but our contempt. Tyranny by the elected may be marginally an improvement over tyranny by force, but a reasonable man will not trouble himself over such a puny distinction. Says the court in response, “Neener-neener.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/245 "2013-07-31T21:00:15Z")
Bricker, you’re making the same old argument that anything that anything that’s legal is, by definition, good. Which is a foolish claim. Lots of bad things have been carried out under the cloak of legality. If the law is always perfect than why are people trying to change it by enacting voter ID laws? Wouldn’t the law have already been perfect before these laws existed and if so, didn’t enacting them make the law less perfect? Obviously this isn’t true. Some laws are good and some laws are bad. We should enact good laws if they don’t exist and repeal bad laws if they do. And voter ID laws? They’re bad laws. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/246 "2013-07-31T21:27:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > We have mechanisms for determining what is, and is not, reasonable. And they are the legislatures, and then the courts. So in summary your position on this matter seems to be that the action of requiring voter ID is legal (what with the dismissal of the Voting Rights Act and all), and it’s reasonable, as evidenced by the fact that legislatures have passed it. Some of us, however, think that legislatures, especially state legislatures, do unreasonable things motivated by self-interest and playing to the imagined fears of the constituents. My first post in this thread was just throwing out my tentative opinion on the matter, and inviting information that could change my mind. The unreasonableness of your posts here have increased my confidence that I had it right from the beginning. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/247 "2013-07-31T21:32:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, of course. Short of some kind of universal mechanically-assisted telepathy where you vote via the cell-modem implant in your skull, there is no conceivable method of conducting elections that does not require **some** kind of effort on the part of the voter. > > Of course. > > WTF is your **point?!** That is absolutely and completely irrelevant to the obvious and indisputable democratic principle that the state should **minimize** the burden of voting in all ways possible and consistent with ballot-integrity. Will you answer this, **Bricker?** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/248 "2013-07-31T21:38:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, exactly right. We have mechanisms for determining what is, and is not, reasonable. And they are the legislatures, and then the courts. Yes, and this kind of Intertubes-wrangle, like discussions in bars and coffeehouses and at dinner-tables and at “Town Hall” meetings, is all **part** of that political process, as it shapes the parameters of the debate and positions the boundaries of the Overton Window and affects how everything plays out at the polls on e-day. There is a process, and we are doing it now. So . . . what is your **point,** here? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/249 "2013-07-31T22:46:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, of course. Short of some kind of universal mechanically-assisted telepathy where you vote via the cell-modem implant in your skull, there is no conceivable method of conducting elections that does not require **some** kind of effort on the part of the voter. > > Of course. > > WTF is your **point?!** That is absolutely and completely irrelevant to the obvious and indisputable democratic principle that the state should **minimize** the burden of voting in all ways possible and consistent with ballot-integrity. At the very least, the state should show some proportionate justification before it increases the burden of voting. But I can anticipate Bricker’s response. He’ll say - correctly - that the state is not legally required to offer any justification before enacting a law. Legislatures are allowed to enact bad laws. The argument Bricker keeps avoiding is whether a state _should_ enact a bad law. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/250 "2013-07-31T22:58:17Z")
A legislature is not justice, just as the most ornate and gilded cathedral is not Jesus. The law is the handjob of justice. But I do not agree that voter id laws are bad _necessarily_, they could be done right and be a generous gift to electoral equality. It requires good will and a selfless, non-partisan devotion to justice, which is sorely absent in any of these. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/251 "2013-07-31T23:03:43Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Hmm. Well, you and the federal and state governments also have a different definition. Photo ID is a specific type of ID. > > Does your birth certificate have a photo on it? My birth certificate is from the Republic of Kenya, but I take your point. I would not call a birth certificate an ID; I doubt I could take one with me and go buy alcohol or get on a plane. Still, I recognize that this is for most people the fundamental cornerstone to getting all their other IDs. I would definitely call this a weak point in the whole system. There should probably be some unalterable biometric measurements taken at birth and attached to the birth certificate as a digital record. Some would shudder at this and raise the spectre of Big Brother; however, I consider myself a civil libertarian and I can see no real objection to this concept except from someone who wants to fraudulently represent themselves as someone other than who they in fact are. > [@CannyDan](#): > > Lots of elderly registered back when they had ID. Now they’ve given up their driver license, maybe moved a couple of times, and don’t have a current picture ID that matches their residence. So they are legitimately registered but cannot show a valid current picture ID at the poll. > > Young voters often could register with college ID, an affidavit from mom and dad, or a power bill. They ride a bike on campus, and thus have no driver license or other government photo ID to display at the poll but are legitimately registered. > > Minorities/poor may also have legitimately registered at some point in the past but have moved, live with friends, have no stable address, or for economic reasons have not kept their photo ID current. (It costs time and money to go get a replacement license every time you move, for instance, and if you do so frequently, even within the same neighborhood, you will be unlikely to keep your driver license current. That’s if you had one in the first place, which is unlikely if you ride the bus to work.) > > These are the people who are legitimately registered – not felons, not illegal aliens, not “poll packers”, just plain folks who at some time jumped the hurdles necessary to become registered – but who now lack “current, government issued, photo ID”. These are the people who are being disenfranchised. First off, there is no way anyone should be able to register with a power bill, especially not a college student. A roommate could just grab that. You might as well not require anything to register other than someone’s word if you’re going to accept a joke like that. And I just doubt there are that many college students with no DL or state ID. Even at age 21? (And why should election authorities have laxer standards than bars or 7/11s?) If a college student can’t procure one, maybe they are not college material. Some of the other groups are of greater concern, but this is why we need orgs like the erstwhile ACORN or OFA to help people take care of this stuff. > [@steronz](#): > > Literacy tests didn’t keep people from voting either. A basic education is free to all US citizens, and all legitimate voters can learn how to read if they really want to vote. If it were an actual standardised test, like a short version of the SAT or ACT, I would be okay with this. But that’s not the way it was done under Jim Crow. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Similarly, providing resources to a district in such an amount that the wait to vote lasts up to 10 hours is not disenfranchising any voter. Legitimate voters are still free to vote after waiting 10 hours. Such circumstances do not “keep anyone from voting.” Now _this_ is a serious issue that must be addressed. I have never had to wait more a minute or two to vote, and usually not at all (there are more open booths than voters, usually more than twice as many, and I can take my pick). That is blatantly inequitable if others wait hours. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Laws exist to have real effect on people, ignoring that real effect is dishonest. The Republicans who are promoting these laws know damn well what that effect is, since that is the reason they want Voter ID. So instead of whining, let’s confound their expectations and show that we are not that easily discouraged. This is exactly what happened in the last election, when a bunch of onerous new registration requirements were supposed to dampen minority turnout; instead, black turnout exceeded white turnout for the first time in American history. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > You know they’re lying when they pontificate about the integrity of the vote, because they don’t say fuck-all about absentee votes, that have 100x the fraud of in person voting. I would call this an outdated impression of absentee voting and its proponents. In the past few years, it has been Democrats who have most strongly pushed absentee voting without needing a cause (like a trip or illness). Many wrongheaded progressives would like to follow Oregon to all-absentee, despite the very valid point you raise. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > And despite this near complete lack of photo IDs in US voting history barely any examples of actual voter fraud (of this sort) has been found. > > Must be magic. Or maybe it’s just exactly what you’d expect if you make something nearly impossible to detect: no one gets caught doing it. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > “Free” does not equate to “reasonable”. A lot of people don’t have picture IDs that you would need to get a voter ID. […]Trying to juggle two jobs to make ends meet? So they can handle two I-9s and two W-4s, but not one state ID application? I do think it would be reasonable to press for these laws to streamline or improve access to the process of getting an ID. Have extended hours, have people who can help gather documents and do so for free, etc. Before someone comes back with the tired refrain “that’s not what Republicans are proposing”, I remind them that in any jurisdiction where they think it might at all be possible to block voter ID laws altogether, it should be even easier to modify them. By making this our counterproposal, we stop letting them have the high ground. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > If you’re going to put up these restrictions, at least be honest about it. State that the purpose of your law is to elect Republicans or to keep minorities from voting. Hiding behind a fig leaf of concern about fraudulent votes doesn’t fool anybody. I’m a Democrat. So is Jimmy Carter last I heard: > **[A Clearer Picture on Voter ID](https://www.cartercenter.org/news/editorials_speeches/voter_id.html)** > > This Jimmy Carter and James Baker III op-ed was published in the Feb. 3, 2008, edition of The New York Times. This is a major election year. Unfortunately, our two major political parties — Democratic and Republican — continue to disagree on some of... > [@](#): > > The laws on the books, mainly backed by Republicans, have not made it easy enough for voters to acquire an ID. At the same time, Democrats have tended to try to block voter ID legislation outright — instead of seeking to revise that legislation to promote accessibility. In searching for the above, I happened upon this NYT piece from a year ago today: > **[Partisan Rifts Hinder Efforts to Improve U.S. Voting System (Published 2012)](https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/01/us/voting-systems-plagues-go-far-beyond-identification.html?pagewanted=all)** > > Twelve years after a too-close-to-call presidential contest in Florida ended in a divisive Supreme Court ruling, the United States’ voting methods are as laden with problems as ever. > [@](#): > > And states have consistently failed to fix a wide range of electoral flaws identified by a bipartisan commission led by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James A. Baker III in 2005. In Florida, for example, the commission found 140,000 voters who had also registered in four other states — some 46,000 of them in New York City alone. When 1,700 of them registered for absentee ballots in the other state, no one investigated. Some 60,000 voters were also simultaneously registered in North and South Carolina.[…] > Robert A. Pastor, co-director of the Center for Democracy and Election Management at American University, who was executive director of the Carter-Baker commission, said the voter identification fights of recent months pale when compared with some of these other issues, especially voter registration. Only half of eligible voters in the country are registered and few of them lack photo IDs, he said. > > “The proponents of voter ID are adamant that it is essential to stop electoral fraud even though there is hardly any evidence of voter impersonation, and the opponents are sure that it will lead to voter suppression even though they haven’t been able — until Pennsylvania — to point to a single instance where a voter could not vote because of a lack of ID,” he said. “I did a survey of Indiana, Maryland, and Mississippi and found only about 1.2 percent of registered voters did not have photo IDs. The problem remains registration — not IDs — in reducing voting participation. To quote Jorge Luis Borges on the Falklands war, ‘It’s a fight between two bald men over a comb.’ ” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/252 "2013-07-31T23:20:32Z")
Here in the People’s Republic of Minnesota, we have rather forgiving laws about such. You can register and vote on the same day. And if you have no picture ID, a utility bill or approximation thereof in your name and address and a registered voter will swear that they know who you are and where you live, you vote. That day. The registered voter who testifies on your behalf does so under the laws of perjury, of course. Probably this is why Minnesota has been reduced to a smoking ruin. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/253 "2013-08-01T01:02:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Here in the People’s Republic of Minnesota, we have rather forgiving laws about such. You can register and vote on the same day. And if you have no picture ID, a utility bill or approximation thereof in your name and address and a registered voter will swear that they know who you are and where you live, you vote. That day. The registered voter who testifies on your behalf does so under the laws of perjury, of course. > > Probably this is why Minnesota has been reduced to a smoking ruin. I blame Al Franken. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/254 "2013-08-01T01:14:16Z")
I was against him running when he first brought it up, but **Bricker** convinced me I was wrong, and now I’m pretty content with it. Come to think of it, never actually thanked him. Oh, well. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/255 "2013-08-01T01:16:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, of course. Short of some kind of universal mechanically-assisted telepathy where you vote via the cell-modem implant in your skull, there is no conceivable method of conducting elections that does not require **some** kind of effort on the part of the voter. > > Of course. > > WTF is your **point?!** That is absolutely and completely irrelevant to the obvious and indisputable democratic principle that the state should **minimize** the burden of voting in all ways possible and consistent with ballot-integrity. Will you answer this, **Bricker?** ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/256 "2013-08-01T01:25:34Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Or maybe it’s just exactly what you’d expect if you make something nearly impossible to detect: no one gets caught doing it. Uhmm…no. There have been many studies into this issue and across the board they have found no pervasive election fraud of the sort we are on about here. There is nothing “impossible” about detecting it at all. If you can cite a study that shows rampant voter fraud of this sort I am all ears. Every study I have seen has shown that voter fraud like we are on about here and voter IDs will fix is nearly non-existent. You are expending effort and spending money to “fix” something that needs no fixing. Stuff like this puts the lie to fiscal conservatives pretending they care about wasting money. They gleefully do so, same as Dems, when it is in their interests. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/257 "2013-08-01T01:44:02Z")
How many times do I have to point out that I am far from conservative? Also: any response to the Carter Center stuff I posted? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/258 "2013-08-01T02:25:48Z")
Also from Hasen’s book, and reassuring – from Chapter 6, “Deus ex Machina”: He acknowledges that the DRE (direct recording electronic) voting machines do have all kinds of security-holes a hacker **could** exploit, and some have in tests; but he dismisses for lack of actual evidence claims of any conspiracy to rig “black box voting” results through hacking, viruses, or hidden software. > [@](#): > > As we will see, some critics have raised valid concerns. But others have moved in to the realm of tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories. The paranoia began with the statement by former Diebold president Walden O’Dell in a fund-raising letter that he would “deliver” Ohio’s electoral votes for President Bush in his 2004 reelection battle. O’Dell was writing to raise funds for Bush, not to signal that the fix was in. If the Diebold machines really had a secret code in them to flip Democratic votes for Republicans, O’Dell would hardly have been so rash as to advertise it in a letter sent to hundreds of people asking for funds for Bush. It was a stupid letter for someone in his position to send, but it was never any proof that Diebold machines were rigged. Even Brad Friedman, one of the most ardent foes of Diebold and the use of electronic voting equipment, had to concede that “it hasn’t been shown that Diebold has actually thrown any elections.” That hasn’t stopped conspiracy theorists from throwing around allegations of stolen elections. > > The fringe left’s equivalent to the Fraudulent Fraud Squad is out there making unsubstantiated claims . . . but drawing far less attention than the squad. Among the machine conspiracy theorists, there is a tremendous distrust of the voting machines and a belief, not backed up by any valid scientific proof I have seen, that the companies are involved in a conspiracy to manipulate election results to help Republicans. So far, fewer Democrats seem to buy into the right-wing conspiracy on voting machines than Republicans who buy into the left-wing voter fraud conspiracy, but that could change with the next election controversy. > > Let’s be clear: There is no more proof of a vast Republican conspiracy to steal elections through hidden software in voting machines than there is proof of a vast Democratic conspiracy to steal elections through voter impersonation fraud. > > What’s really going on with the voting machines? The story should by now be familiar: Hanlon’s razor. Incompetence, not criminality. Of course, OTOH . . . as with “voter fraud” . . . > [@SlackerInc](#): > > Or maybe it’s just exactly what you’d expect if you make something nearly impossible to detect: no one gets caught doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/259 "2013-08-01T02:38:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Here in the People’s Republic of Minnesota, we have rather forgiving laws about such. You can register and vote on the same day. And if you have no picture ID, a utility bill or approximation thereof in your name and address and a registered voter will swear that they know who you are and where you live, you vote. That day. The registered voter who testifies on your behalf does so under the laws of perjury, of course. > > Probably this is why Minnesota has been reduced to a smoking ruin. Well, you are the state that elected Rudy Boschowitz and nearly made Allen Quist Governor. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/260 "2013-08-01T02:39:51Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > How many times do I have to point out that I am far from conservative? > > Also: any response to the Carter Center stuff I posted? If you support voter ID laws then you are supporting something that is distinctly conservative. As for the Carter Center stuff not sure what you want to prove. Seems it is slicing and dicing the numbers differently. I have cited that 11% of people in the US do not have photo IDs. The Carter Center seems to suggest that of that 11% not many vote. So what? If I determine you did not vote the last two elections is it ok if I throw impediments to you voting in the next election? Further, conservative efforts at disenfranchisement are not limited to Voter ID laws. They are making efforts on numerous fronts to make it more difficult for typically liberal voters to vote. In short the group who generally is the loudest to proclaim the virtues of democracy are doing their level best to make the system undemocratic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813.md?page=14)