# The most important thing you need to know about the voter ID issue . . . **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 29, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813 "2013-07-29T14:42:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/161 "2013-07-30T22:10:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Heck, I’d even get behind an Australian-style system where voting is **compulsory** and you can get fined for shirking it. Of course, that **would** require a universal database, at least of who is eligible to vote. Wouldn’t be fair to fine the ineligible. How do the Australians handle that? Does anybody know? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/162 "2013-07-30T22:20:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why indeed? I don’t need ID. I use my ATM card. Cool. Allow people to vote with an ID that has no picture but has a pin #. I am sure there won’t be howls of protest. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/163 "2013-07-30T22:33:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Since there have been no notable case of voter ID fraud changing the course of elections How do you know? I should say though that if I thought Democrats were actually winning (when they do win) via massive fraud, and that voter ID would slam the door shut on our electoral chances for a generation or more, I would change my tune. To me, the ends do justify the means; it’s just that I don’t think we need these means and in fact they may be counterproductive by casting our party in a poor light. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/164 "2013-07-30T22:36:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Cool. Allow people to vote with an ID that has no picture but has a pin #. I am sure there won’t be howls of protest. Nah. I use my ATM card every week. That’s why I never had to write down the PIN (“PIN number” is incorrect, BTW, think about it), which you’re warned not to do for obvious reasons. But if you have a number you only use every two years, **nobody’s** gonna remember it. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/165 "2013-07-30T22:41:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > (“PIN number” is incorrect, BTW, think about it) Oh I think that train has sailed… And, by the way, I’d be OK with people using the ATM card (with PIN entering) to ID themselves when voting. There’s your comprehensive ID system - works all across the US. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/166 "2013-07-30T22:44:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Cool. Allow people to vote with an ID that has no picture but has a pin #. I am sure there won’t be howls of protest. Yeah! And allow people to withdraw one dollar from the bank only once on the Tuesday after the first Monday in November every other year. Perfect analogy. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/167 "2013-07-30T22:51:09Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Oh I think that train has sailed… > > And, by the way, I’d be OK with people using the ATM card They even work at ATM machines. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/168 "2013-07-31T02:39:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And, by the way, I’d be OK with people using the ATM card (with PIN entering) to ID themselves when voting. There’s your comprehensive ID system - works all across the US. I don’t have an ATM card. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/169 "2013-07-31T02:40:43Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I don’t have an ATM card. Then I guess the picture ID will have to do. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/170 "2013-07-31T02:57:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Then I guess the picture ID will have to do. OK. [opens briefcase] $50 for a DL, $75 for a passport. You want the birth-certificate special? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/171 "2013-07-31T05:01:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > OK. [opens briefcase] $50 for a DL, $75 for a passport. Passports are now $140. I just got four of them for my family a couple of months ago. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/172 "2013-07-31T05:07:58Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Heck, I’d even get behind an Australian-style system where voting is **compulsory** and you can get fined for shirking it. I’d prefer to see the I VOTED receipt serve as a national lottery ticket. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/173 "2013-07-31T05:10:48Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Passports are now $140. Sure, if you buy retail! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/174 "2013-07-31T05:12:44Z")
A plan. We set up booths in obvious and convenient locations: the Piggly Wiggly, Wal-Mart, post offices, any place ordinary people are likely to be at one time or another. The bright young student at the booth takes a digital photo, and a digital thumbprint. Enters your name and address into the data. A laminated card is sent to that address with an enclosed return post card. Joe Jones of 123 Maple Street now has a photo id, the post card is returned, and now Joe Jones of 123 Maple St. is a registered voter. Good news, everyone! Not only is this pretty easy, cheap, and so forth, but it is likely to actually increase the electorate, bringing oodles and gobs of previously unregistered voters onto the rolls! Who wouldn’t love that!? Well, the people who wouldn’t love that are the people who don’t want lots of new voters registered. .Same people who are eager to pass laws making voter registration drives more difficult or even criminal. Same people who don’t want black people going to church on Sunday and then voting. Same people who refuse to make it easier for working folks to vote. Starts with an “R”. This idea, its just off the top of my head, any of us could come up with an idea very nearly as good. A way to get voter id into the hands of people with maximum convenience and zero cost. That isn’t a problem it ain’t rocket surgery. Hell, you could get volunteers to man the booth, League of Women Voters, ACORN, CHAOS. SPECTRE… So, where are they? Where are these outreach programs from the Pubbies? Anybody hear of any? Or do we hear what we hear, about extra laws to make voter registration drives more difficult, cutting back on early voting, Sunday voting. Anybody who truly believes that this is all about voter roll integrity or the all important crisis in voter confidence isn’t smart enough to make their own oatmeal. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/175 "2013-07-31T05:35:33Z")
But **elucidator** , the point is that you don’t worry about GOP motives: you do the work, just as you laid out. Along with registration drives, you add ID drives. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/176 "2013-07-31T05:38:26Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > But **elucidator** , the point is that you don’t worry about GOP motives: you do the work, just as you laid out. Along with registration drives, you add ID drives. Well, I don’t think that’s the kind of thing you can do without some kind of official sanction. We already have that for voting-registration (for now); but private ID drives would need some kind of legislation at the state level, and right now the Pubs control more legislatures and governorships than the Dems. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/177 "2013-07-31T05:42:04Z")
You are saying that volunteers at the library etc. can help the poor and elderly do their taxes but not help them do the paperwork to get an ID? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/178 "2013-07-31T05:47:10Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > You are saying that volunteers at the library etc. can help the poor and elderly do their taxes but not help them do the paperwork to get an ID? If we’re talking about an ID you would show at the polls, I’m sure it would have to be a driver’s license, a passport, a **government-issued** ID. I’ve never gotten such an ID but by going to a government agency. Letting volunteers handle it in supermarkets would require official sanction. And raises the possibility of facilitating identity theft or fake ID, if it’s not carefully supervised. **Of course** the government is going to be more easygoing when it comes to letting volunteers help people pay their taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/179 "2013-07-31T06:17:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I applaud this post. I think you’ve honestly admitted the difficulties in arguing against Voter ID, and at the same time pointed out that the real issues go well beyond ID demands to some very systemic problems in conducting elections. Thanks for a concise and accurate statement of the problem. It’s not difficult at all to argue against voter id laws: they will create a much larger amount of flawed voting than the problem they’re supposed to be fixing. They’re the equivalent of fixing a sprained ankle by amputation. But that’s only a flaw if you believe the people advocating for these laws are honest. The reality is they know this quite well. The flaw is what they actually want to achieve. Voter ID laws aren’t really intended to stop fraudulent voters - they’re intended to disenfranchise legitimate voters. These guys want to cut off the leg and they’re just using the sprained ankle as an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813/180 "2013-07-31T06:21:45Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > But **elucidator** , the point is that you don’t worry about GOP motives: you do the work, just as you laid out. Along with registration drives, you add ID drives. How many “unexpected difficulties” do you think will occur in the ID issuing programs? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-important-thing-you-need-to-know-about-the-voter-id-issue/664813.md?page=10)