# The most interesting heaven or hell **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 28, 2005, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098 "2005-01-28T12:57:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/21 "2005-01-28T18:13:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Chinese got a lot of hells… > [@Fiver](#): > > There’s a Chinese Hell? I thought the Chinese were Buddhists.~~ **Big Trouble In Little China** Waited for _years…_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/22 "2005-01-28T18:13:53Z")
I’ve always liked the Talking Heads song [“Heaven”](http://www.lyricsondemand.com/t/talkingheadslyrics/heavenlyrics.html), primarily because it makes Heaven sound like a terrible place (like off the _Fear of Music_ album) or a wonderful place (like in the **Stop Making Sense** movie), depending on how you sang it. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/23 "2005-01-28T18:15:04Z")
And then f^cked up the post. :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/24 "2005-01-28T18:19:30Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > _Bill & Ted’s Bogus Journey_! I can’t believe someone beat me to that. _sigh_ Not that I expect to spend a whole lot of time in Heaven, but I’d like to play charades with Einstein and Ben Franklin. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/25 "2005-01-28T18:20:28Z")
Personally I liked the visions of both in _What Dreams May Come_. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > But my personal favorite is George Bernard Shaw’s vision in the “Don Juan in Hell” sequence in **Man and Superman**. Was that the one starring Tommy Chong and Christopher Reeve? ---
**Author:** ![Tentacle\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba9def/32.png) [@Tentacle\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tentacle_Monster)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/26 "2005-01-28T19:19:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Court 6: Screaming Torture and Administrative Errors. Ruled by BIAN-CHENG-WANG. I used to work there, but I don’t remember anybody by that name. ---
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/27 "2005-01-28T20:14:48Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I love Milton’s descriptions of hell in _Paradise Lost_: the Palace, the cities, etc. I love Milton too, as best a gleeful, cackling obsessed enthusiast can.😃 Milton’s hell starts in the traditional fire lake, but it also inlcudes the frozen continent. Part of the torment of the fallen angels is burning burn/freezer burn/burning burn at regular intervals. There’s only one edifice in Milton’s hell–Pandemonium. It’s probably best described as a single building, but as large as a city. > [@](#): > > by him first > Men also, and by his suggestion taught, > Ransack’d the Center, and with impious hands > Rifl’d the bowels of thir mother Earth > For Treasures better hid. Soon had his crew > Op’nd into the Hill a spacious wound > And dig’d out ribs of Gold. … > > Nigh on the Plain in many cells prepar’d, > That underneath had veins of liquid fire > Sluc’d from the Lake [that’s the fire lake], a second multitude > With wondrous Art founded the massie Ore, > Severing each kinde, and scum’d the Bullion dross: > A third as soon had form’d within the ground > A various mould, and from the boyling cells > By strange conveyance fill’d each hollow nook, > As in an Organ from one blast of wind > To many a row of Pipes the sound-board breaths. > Anon out of the earth a Fabrick huge > Rose like an Exhalation, with the sound > Of Dulcet Symphonies and voices sweet, > Built like a Temple, where PILASTERS round > Were set, and Doric pillars overlaid > With Golden Architrave; nor did there want > Cornice or Freeze, with bossy Sculptures grav’n, > The Roof was fretted Gold. … > > Th’ ascending pile > Stood fixt her stately highth, and strait the dores > Op’ning thir brazen foulds discover wide > Within, her ample spaces, o’re the smooth > And level pavement: from the arched roof > Pendant by suttle Magic many a row > Of Starry Lamps and blazing Cressets fed > With Naphtha and ASPHALTUS yeilded light > As from a sky. I read something recently that said that the rise of Pandemonium is essentially a fart–fill the molds (intestines) and “cells” and get an"exhalation" of something evil and horrific as from an “organ.” (I know y’all are _really_ interested in long quotes from Paradise Lost, but what the hell.) OTOH, I don’t think that Milton’s heaven or hell are particularly strong or interesting as mere _places_; it’s the characterizations and portrayal of human nature/vice which make it rock. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/28 "2005-01-28T20:27:13Z")
Hell isn’t mentioned, and Heaven is only alluded to, but I think the best treatment of Purgatory I’ve ever read is Tolkien’s short story “Leaf by Niggle”. The best quote I can remember of it is “Not pleasurable, exactly, but satisfying, like bread rather than jam”. I also liked the stunning visuals in _What Dreams may Come_, but I thought it was a bit theologically weak. “Where’s God in all of this?”, indeed. Although I do appreciate the difficulties they would have had in incorporating God into it, as well. And a rather… unconventional… afterlife was presented in one of Asimov’s short stories, although I unfortunately cannot remember the name. An atheist scientist dies and finds himself still conscious and existing, and God tells him that He saves all the brightest minds (for all the rest, oblivion: God is not cruel, but they’re of no further use to Him). The scientist’s task for eternity, as well as that of all the others saved, is to think, and to thereby try to expand the scope of God’s omniscience. Ultimately, God seeks to learnhow He Himself may cease to exist, since that is the one thing He cannot know, and desparately desires ---
**Author:** ![Murcielago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Murcielago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Murcielago)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/29 "2005-01-28T20:38:47Z")
The well-appointed sitting room which becomes Hell for Sartre’s three characters in _No Exit_ comes to mind. A personal Hell, but Hell nonetheless. I also enjoyed the Heaven and Hell depicted in the _Preacher_ series by Garth Ennis. It seemed both were dominated by beings who were more like pernicious teenagers than learned immortals. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/30 "2005-01-28T20:52:08Z")
> [@](#): > > I also liked the stunning visuals in What Dreams may Come, but I thought it was a bit theologically weak. “Where’s God in all of this?”, indeed. Although I do appreciate the difficulties they would have had in incorporating God into it, as well. I agree, and I like Mike Nelson’s review of the film (from his book **Mike Nelson’s Movie Megacheese** ): “It’s the theology of two guys doing bong hits.” ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/31 "2005-01-28T21:07:20Z")
I’ve only browsed through it, but (Wayne Douglas) _[Barlowe’s Inferno](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1883398363/102-1160428-7519352)_ looked [pretty interesting.](http://www.darkworlds.com/ls/realm_2338.html) It included things like tormented souls being used as bricks in the architecture of Hell, and being used as clothing by demons. One of the really facinating “Hells,” though? The one shown on an episode of Nickelodeon’s _Rocko’s Modern Life_. No kidding. [spoiler]In it, Rocko’s friend gluttonous Heffer goes clinically dead after choking on a chicken bone, and his spirit wakes up in a firely place called “Heck,” confronted by a robed and rather personable demon named “Peaches.” (Peaches stops Heffer from calling it “Hell” because of the censors) But, within moments, Peaches waves away the firey caverns of Heck—they’re “just for tourists”—replacing it with a blank-white nothingness, containing only an old recliner and a TV. On the screen was a video feed of Rocko—who’d tried to climb down Heffer’s throat to clear his airway, and ended up trapped in Heffer’s “labyrinthine gut.” Heffer’s punishment was to have been being forced to sit there, and watch Rocko slowly starve to death trying to save Heffer from his own appetite. And he’d have to watch it over and over again…for eternity. [/spoiler] :eek: Pretty dead-on chilling, for a kid’s show. And without any real religious content, either. [spoiler]Another interesting bit came after Rocko managed to ressusitate Heffer in the real world, allowing him to escape from Heck. As his spirit ascended, Peaches started a dramatic _“NOO! NOOOO!”_, but then cut himself off with a dismissive “eh, go ahead.” And really, why wouldn’t he? It was just one soul…there’d be plenty more like him, all the way to the end of time. No need to fight for souls when they’ll just come to you.[/spoiler] I’ve always had a soft spot for that kind idea of “The Devil”—not arch-evil, he’s just the guy who runs Hades. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/32 "2005-01-28T21:13:44Z")
Didn’t Sarte say that Hell was other people? Or was that in the play “No Exit” - a frightening version of Hell itself. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/33 "2005-01-28T21:55:26Z")
[The Book of Arda Viraf](http://www.avesta.org/pahlavi/viraf.html), in the Zoroastrian religion, has some of the most descriptive writings on heaven and hell in any religious texts I have read. This book is a Dante-esque recollection of Viraf’s journey to heaven and hell. The description of Heaven takes up Chapters 10 through 15. Hell, being far more interesting of course, and its punishments are described in excruciating detail from chapters 16 through 100. The crimes and punishments in The Book of Arda Viraf are far juicier and imaginative than anything in the Bible. Some of my favorite excerpts: **The punishment for a menstruating woman approaching fire or water** > [@](#): > > CHAPTER 20 > > 1. I came to a place, and I saw the soul of a woman, (2) to whom they ever gave to eat cup after cup of the impurity and filth of men. > 2. And I asked thus: ‘What sin was committed by this body, whose soul suffers suchl a punishment?’ > 3. Srosh the pious, and Adar the angel, said (5) thus: ‘This is the soul of that wicked woman who, having not abstained, nor lawfully withheld herself, approached water and fire during her menstruation.’ **The punishment for walking barefoot** > [@](#): > > CHAPTER 25 > > 1. I also saw the souls of several men, and several women, (2) whose legs and necks and middle parts a noxious creature (khrafstar) ever gnawed, and separated one from the other. > 2. And I asked thus: ‘What sin was committed by these bodies, whose souls suffer such a punishment?’ > 3. Srosh the pious, and Adar the angel, said (5) thus: ‘These are the souls of those wicked ones who, in the world, walked without shoes, (6) ran about uncovered, made water on foot, and performed other demon-service.’ **Wearing Make-up** > [@](#): > > Chapter 73. [Makeup] > > 1. I also saw the souls of women (2) who ever shed and sucked and ate the blood and filth of their ten fingers; (3) and worms ever came into both eyes. > 2. And I asked thus: ‘Who are these souls? (5) and what sin was committed by them who suffer so severe a punishment?’ > 3. Srosh the pious, and Adar the angel, said (7) thus: ‘These are the souls of those wicked women who beautified their faces [with makeup], and kept the hair of others as ornament; (8) and they captivated the eyes of the men of God.’ **Starving your own baby and selling your maternal milk for profit** > [@](#): > > Chapter 94. [Starving their infants and selling the milk] > > 1. Then I saw the souls of those whose own breasts were placed upon a hot frying-pan, by their own hands, (2) and were ever turned from side to side. > 2. And I asked thus: ‘What sin was committed by these women, whose souls suffer so severe a punishment?’ > 3. Srosh the pious, and Adar the angel, said (5) thus: 'These are the souls of those women who gave their infants no milk, but emaciated and destroyed them; (6) and for worldly gain, gave milk to the infants of others. **Killing an otter** > [@](#): > > Chapter 98. [Ate nasa, and killed an otter and other sacred animals] > > 1. Then I saw the souls of a woman and a man who voided and are up the excrement. > 2. And I asked thus: ‘What sin was committed by these bodies, whose souls suffer so severe a punishment?’ > 3. Srosh the pious, and Adar the angel, said (4) thus: ‘These are the souls of that wicked man and woman who, in the world, devoured dead refuse through sinfulness; (5) and killed the water-otter in the water, (6) and smote and slew other creatures of Ohrmazd.’ Oh, it’s a really fun read. You can’t help but think the Zoroastrians were a bit obsessed with punishment and menstruating women. ---
**Author:** ![Odinoneeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@Odinoneeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odinoneeye)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/34 "2005-01-28T22:17:53Z")
How about The Simpsons. Being forcefed donuts throughout eternity. Didn’t work on Homer though… ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/35 "2005-01-28T22:32:14Z")
**Job: A Comedy of Justice** by Robert Heinlein has a very interesting, humerous take on Heaven, Hell, the rapture & armaggeddon, and the biblical story of Job as well. Well worth reading. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/36 "2005-01-28T22:33:02Z")
Don’t know about the most interesting, but I think the most accurate is CS Lewis’s Narnia VII:The Last Battle- in which Heaven is the world pristing & eternal & Hell is going into God’s Shadow & then wandering around in Heaven totally closed to its blessings, indeed experiencing them as tormenting. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/37 "2005-01-28T23:45:38Z")
> [@well he's back](#): > > Didn’t Sarte say that Hell was other people? Or was that in the play “No Exit” - a frightening version of Hell itself. Both. Sartre wrote “No Exit” and that was the _denouement_ of the drama. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/38 "2005-01-28T23:58:25Z")
> [@Art Vandelay](#): > > **Job: A Comedy of Justice** by Robert Heinlein has a very interesting, humerous take on Heaven, Hell, the rapture & armaggeddon, and the biblical story of Job as well. Well worth reading. In case you weren’t aware of it, James Branch Cabell created that perspective on matters metaphysical in _Jurgen_ (which is what I was going to offer in this thread before getting to your post); Heinlein merely “filed off the serial numbers and reused it” (his own comment). And I agree; Heinlein’s _Job_ is very worth reading. ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/39 "2005-01-29T00:22:20Z")
> [@Enola Straight](#): > > [http://www.pholph.com/index.php?Strip=1](http://www.pholph.com/index.php?Strip=1) > > Warning: this is a webcomic with a MATURE rating. For once I’m glad I didn’t listen to the warnings. Except for the ‘musical holes’ part :eek: I think my favorite (aside from the ones already mentioned) is in the books _Waiting for the Galactic Bus_ and _The Snake Oil Wars_ by Parke Godwin. Heaven and Hell are both what you make of them, and the, ah, proprietors of each don’t interfere much except to keep everything organised, and provide furnishings where necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Tentacle\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba9def/32.png) [@Tentacle\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tentacle_Monster)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2005, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098/40 "2005-01-29T02:03:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Enola Straight > [http://www.pholph.com/index.php?Strip=1](http://www.pholph.com/index.php?Strip=1) > > Warning: this is a webcomic with a MATURE rating. I can’t believe I’ve spent the last hour reading a furry strip. No, scratch that: I can’t believe I’ve spent the last hour reading a furry strip that was actually _interesting_. Anyway, I think the most interesting heaven was described by Kurt Vonnegut in _God Bless You, Dr. Kevorkian_. It’s a short and light read for Vonnegut, but it does paint an interesting picture of Heaven (from the front gate, anyway.) And since nobody’s mentioned an afterlife from a video game; there’s _Disgaea: Hour of Darkness_. In _Disgaea_, Heaven and Hell are actual, factual, physical places. There’s evil in Heaven and virtue in Hell, every being is mortal, and when you die; you get to spend some time as an unstable penguin to atone before you get another ride on the Wheel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-interesting-heaven-or-hell/287098.md?page=3)