# The most libeled people in history
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [June 6, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205 "2014-06-06T15:31:22Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/1 "2014-06-06T15:31:22Z")
My nominations:
1. Salieri. Despite what you might think after seeing that movie, no, Salieri didn’t kill Mozart. There might have been some rivalry there at one stage, but the two men were actually friends, and supported each other’s works. Salieri even tutored Mozart’s son.
2. The Emperor Caligula. Again, despite of the movie, and all the rumors, he probably wasn’t quite the deranged monster that you might think he was. OK, he was a bad enough emperor to be murdered by his own guards, but the business about sleeping with his sisters was likely just hearsay (accusations of incest was par for the course for unpopular public figures in ancient Rome), and he might not actually have been crazy. He didn’t make his horse a consul (OK, he say he \*planned \*to do it, but it could have been meant as a joke). And that thing from _I, Claudius_? Yeah, you know what. Didn’t happen. Made-uppey for TV. Not even the ancient historians, who really hated his guts, claimed that he did _that_.
Also, he probably threw some \*awesome \*parties. I say give the guy a break.
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### Author:  [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/2 "2014-06-06T15:34:23Z")
King Richard III seems not to have deserved Shakespear’s depiction.
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### Author:  [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/3 "2014-06-06T15:43:57Z")
Ivan the Terrible. _Formidable_ might be a better translation of his epithet, frankly.
He was erratic, and shouldn’t have murdered his son & heir, certainly. Or beaten his daughter. Or a few other nasties.
But he accomplished a lot.
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### Author:  [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/4 "2014-06-06T15:47:19Z")
The Roman Emperor [Constantine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great), while perhaps not subject to libel per se, is the subject of a lot of argument in the Christian world. Most hierarchical, liturgical churches (e.g. Roman Catholic, Church of England, Greek/Russian Orthodox, Lutheran) treat him as one of the best Christian leaders who ever lived. Many “fundies” claim that he was one of the worst enemies that Christianity has ever faced because he corrupted the church beyond recognition, requiring major reform.
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### Author:  [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/5 "2014-06-06T17:32:39Z")
Marie Antoinette was the subject of some vicious rumours.
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/6 "2014-06-06T17:52:14Z")
[Empress Theodora of Byzantium.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empress_Theodora) While she did start out as a prostitute, she eventually reigned as a strong, effective and progressive co-ruler of her Empire, and all of her modern reputation as a corrupt, malicious adulteress comes from the writings of a clerk with an axe to grind.
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### Author:  [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/7 "2014-06-06T19:07:38Z")
> [@Becky2844](#):
>
> King Richard III seems not to have deserved Shakespear’s depiction.
This is what I can in to post. (Bloody Tudor propaganda…)
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/8 "2014-06-06T19:36:39Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#):
>
> The Roman Emperor [Constantine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great), while perhaps not subject to libel per se, is the subject of a lot of argument in the Christian world. Most hierarchical, liturgical churches (e.g. Roman Catholic, Church of England, Greek/Russian Orthodox, Lutheran) treat him as one of the best Christian leaders who ever lived. Many “fundies” claim that he was one of the worst enemies that Christianity has ever faced because he corrupted the church beyond recognition, requiring major reform.
I don’t think you need to be a fundie to recognize that uniting church and state creates some serious problems for the church as well as the state. (In fact, these days it helps not to be one.)
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### Author:  [@here\_and\_there](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/here_and_there)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/9 "2014-06-06T20:49:23Z")
# **Nero** wasn’t that bad (for an emperor of Rome). Many “common” people loved him. The nobles hated him, though. They made sure he is remembered as some crazy guy.
> [@](#):
>
> Empress Theodora of Byzantium
Wasn’t she involved in the execution or tens of thousands of rioters in the horse track?
Or do I mistake her for another empress?
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### Author:  [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/10 "2014-06-06T20:58:08Z")
Judas Iscariot.
Also possibly Benedict Arnold.
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### Author:  [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/11 "2014-06-06T21:05:32Z")
Catherine II of Russia never had sex with a horse. Probably.
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### Author:  [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/12 "2014-06-06T21:08:44Z")
The bad guy in “The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters” was unfairly portrayed, I hear.
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### Author:  [@here\_and\_there](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/here_and_there)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/13 "2014-06-06T21:43:51Z")
And, of course, probably. the most libeled person in the western world: **Stalin**
- What? Stalin?
- Yes… Stalin!
Most Russian, and many non Russians (like myself) still think highly of him, despite of all these “rivers” of libel.
But, if you want to keep on believing the western propaganda… I am not gonna talk you out of it…
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### Author:  [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/14 "2014-06-06T22:10:46Z")
> [@here\_and\_there](#):
>
> And, of course, probably. the most libeled person in the western world: **Stalin**
>
> - What? Stalin?
>
> - Yes… Stalin!
>
> Most Russian, and many non Russians (like myself) still think highly of him, despite of all these “rivers” of libel.
>
> But, if you want to keep on believing the western propaganda… I am not gonna talk you out of it…
Okay, I’ll bite - he _wasn’t_ responsible for the deaths of millions of his own citizens? Do tell.
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### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/15 "2014-06-06T23:24:34Z")
Well, I can say that Stalin wasn’t as bad as Hitler. So he’s got that going for him.
There’s a couple of runners-up for the title of History’s Second Greatest Monster, and Stalin at least deserves to be among that elite group.
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### Author:  [@here\_and\_there](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/here_and_there)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/16 "2014-06-07T00:01:13Z")
> [@](#):
>
> **WordMan**
> Okay, I’ll bite - he wasn’t responsible for the deaths of millions of his own citizens? Do tell.
What is there to tell? What deaths and what millions are we talking about?
He was responsible for thousands of deaths. For those that were enemies of the revolution. And those that were ready to betray their country and their people for personal gain.
And innocent people were caught in this. And yes, innocent people died, too… or were send to labor camps… But when you are expecting a war where millions of people will perish… sorry, this is not a romantic TV series… you don’t take chances.
You have to eliminate the backstabber and the pro-Fascists. Otherwise your country will fall in a month (like others did).
There weren’t any mass murders… unjustified killings… millions of deaths… deliberate famines… genocides…
This is all Gebelist propaganda (“the bigger the lie…”)
Let’s mention a few of his achievements:
He was in charge of an effort…
Yes… Stalin was not alone. He was in charge of a popular movement.
This movement saved the Soviet people. Or better… Lead the Soviet people into working together and saving themselves.
Literally!
What the Nazis envisioned was “Conquer the land, kill most of the people, keep the rest for slaves and genetic experiments”.
Had this leadership been unwise… it would mean total disaster.
They would have been wiped out.
This popular movement actually ended famine!
No more famine for the people of the former Russian Empire. The Soviet people were better fed even than the mighty British.
After the war, the Soviet people ate well and plenty when the British people were still queening with little pieces of paper in their hands and making cans of beens their national food.
And Britain was not even invaded!!!
This Communist movement fragmented and brought colonialism to its knees. The Soviets, not only inspired, but also actively supported many anti-colonialist movements and uprisings.
You see, there were people who didn’t wish to be castrated… or raped… or randomly killed in the street, because some sergeant felt like it…
These acts happened in large scale in colonial Britain in the '50s.
No… sorry… that’s not the 1850s.
That’s the 1950s !!!
I am not saying that he did everything right… Many things could or should have been done differently…
But under the circumstances, I think he did pretty well… a little short of excellent.
If you asked me… "In a time of crisis, would you mind us resurrecting Stalin and posting him in charge of your country, instead of the usual type of prime ministers? "
Then I would reply… “By all means… yes, please!”
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/17 "2014-06-07T00:06:57Z")
Okay, so we’re talking about a parallel universe then.
Just so you know, here on our world Stalin was a total dick.
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### Author:  [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/18 "2014-06-07T00:13:41Z")
Captain Kidd. Many think he was a privateer, not a pirate. He was unable to produce reliable witnesses or a letter of marque, so was hanged.
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### Author:  [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/19 "2014-06-07T00:42:34Z")
> [@here\_and\_there](#):
>
> What is there to tell? What deaths and what millions are we talking about?
>
> He was responsible for thousands of deaths. For those that were enemies of the revolution. And those that were ready to betray their country and their people for personal gain.
> And innocent people were caught in this. And yes, innocent people died, too… or were send to labor camps… But when you are expecting a war where millions of people will perish… sorry, this is not a romantic TV series… you don’t take chances.
> You have to eliminate the backstabber and the pro-Fascists. Otherwise your country will fall in a month (like others did).
>
> There weren’t any mass murders… unjustified killings… millions of deaths… deliberate famines… genocides…
> This is all Gebelist propaganda (“the bigger the lie…”)
>
> Let’s mention a few of his achievements:
>
> He was in charge of an effort…
> Yes… Stalin was not alone. He was in charge of a popular movement.
>
> This movement saved the Soviet people. Or better… Lead the Soviet people into working together and saving themselves.
> Literally!
> What the Nazis envisioned was “Conquer the land, kill most of the people, keep the rest for slaves and genetic experiments”.
> Had this leadership been unwise… it would mean total disaster.
> They would have been wiped out.
>
> This popular movement actually ended famine!
> No more famine for the people of the former Russian Empire. The Soviet people were better fed even than the mighty British.
> After the war, the Soviet people ate well and plenty when the British people were still queening with little pieces of paper in their hands and making cans of beens their national food.
> And Britain was not even invaded!!!
>
> This Communist movement fragmented and brought colonialism to its knees. The Soviets, not only inspired, but also actively supported many anti-colonialist movements and uprisings.
> You see, there were people who didn’t wish to be castrated… or raped… or randomly killed in the street, because some sergeant felt like it…
> These acts happened in large scale in colonial Britain in the '50s.
> No… sorry… that’s not the 1850s.
> That’s the 1950s !!!
>
> I am not saying that he did everything right… Many things could or should have been done differently…
> But under the circumstances, I think he did pretty well… a little short of excellent.
>
> If you asked me… "In a time of crisis, would you mind us resurrecting Stalin and posting him in charge of your country, instead of the usual type of prime ministers? "
> Then I would reply… “By all means… yes, please!”
[Walter Duranty](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Duranty), is that you?
---
### Author:  [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/20 "2014-06-07T00:42:37Z")
William Bligh, as well as being a supreme navigator, was, for his time, a humane and enlightened commander, who punished lightly and was keenly interested in his crew’s welfare. His sharp tongue on a crew who had fond memories of their sojourn on Tahiti was probably the goad that spurred on the infamous mutiny, but he was far from being the ranting martinet most people picture him as.
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